to think being a night owl is a choice rather than something you can't help?

[lilypadpod]

Anyone else a night owl or live with one?

Frustrated with DH. He has always been a 'night owl'. In an ideal world he goes to bed around 5am gets up around 1pm. He still does this some weekends On work nights he goes to bed around 2am gets up 8-9am. He claims he can't help being like this, it's the way his brain is wired! He feels spaced out and grumpy in mornings even if he goes to bed early. By evening he's at his best.

I feel it's possible to train yourself to function well in mornings and get up early. I've always had to get up at 6am for work and feel a lie-in is a luxury! I'm fed up of living in different time zones and feel he should make more effort to get into a normal sleep schedule! I have to get up when baby is up (around 5:30am) and I go to bed at 9pm as he feeds 4x night. DH sometimes makes a big effort and gets up at 9am on a weekend but I still feel this is too late! More often it's 10-11am. And he's never energetic or enthusiastic in the mornings, he does everything in slow motion which puts a real dampener on the day. I suggested he get up at 7am sometimes so we can have a full day out as a family but he thinks this is very U! He faffs around for a couple of hours 'waking up' and having breakfast so if he gets up at 10 it's lunch-time by time he's ready... and I want him to take baby so I can get ready too!

AIBU to think he should/can adapt his sleep pattern to suit family life?

[Vintage45]

Another night owl here. My DF was and so is one of my DS's.

No matter what time I get up I spring to life at 9pm. Always have done.

[suzannecaravaggio]

I am as groggy as anything in the mornings but then fine all day
same here!

problem I find is that (because I usually feel as if I need more sleep in the mornings) the temptation is always to oversleep and then not feel tired at night.

I think it is easier for larks to get an early night because they tend to be ready for sleep before their normal bedtime.
For an owl to get an early night she has create a sleep debt in advance by force herself to get up before she feels ready....and that usually means feeling a bit crap/ill all day

[suzannecaravaggio]

An owl could be an early morning person, given a big enough carrot...or stick

[suzannecaravaggio]

An owl defaults to a diurnal cycle which is longer than 24 hours
in order to stick to a regular cycle the owl needs to Wake up before she really wants to and go to bed before she feels really tired

A lark, who defaults to a shorter cycle will (in order to stick to a 24 hour based schedule) be awake before its time to get up, and tired before it's time to go to sleep.

If I'm correct with my summary that means that owls will need to be more disciplined about sleep hygiene?

[LovelyFriend]

Busy gaming
I knew it! All this owl stuff is a bullshit cover for wanting to stay up late doing what he wants, while you do all the "wifework". He hasn't even TRIED to got to bed earlier.

[ToomuchChocolatemeansBootcamp]

MLGs I have actually done that a couple of times (as student and once when depression/insomnia took hold) stayed up later and later each night till eventually I was going to bed at 6am and sleeping till lunchtime. Then once id got to that point, I just stayed up all day, didn't sleep at all until the following night and "reset" my clock back to bed about midnight.
Even as a parent now I still find morning tough. I also don't feel my brain switches on properly till about 10am. Hated office jobs for this reason, now I work for myself mostly afternoons/evenings and it's much better! Luckily DS looks like he's more of an owl than lark too - he was a later to bed, later up baby and this has carried on. He gets up for school ok, just neither of us say very much in the morning!!

[Orangeanddemons]

I thought all owls had a longer cycle, and all larks had a shorter cycle. That's what causes you to be one or the other.

[NHSisfubar]

Tiggytape 13.58 - yes THIS! I constantly battle with sleep and generally survive on 3am - 8.30am as luckily I can move my hours around a bit to suit. I do my best (creative trade) work in the early hours.

What this thread has made me realise is that it's not necessarily not wanting a baby itself that is making me anti the idea. It is the fear that it will leave my sleep pattern so disrupted I just won't function. If I could guarantee it would also be an owl I think my thoughts on having a child would be entirely different. The idea of not sleeping until 3am then having to get up after 3 hours sleep to tend to a little person is quite frankly scary.

As for Tiggytape's comment about not wanting early hotel breakfasts when away on weekends with family etc (not mine - mine are all owls and late risers (proving it is genetic!) but with ex partners family who were all larks) yes yes yes. This strikes such a chord. No I am not lazy I am just bloody exhausted from getting about 4-5 hrs sleep all week!

[JizzyStradlin]

Busy gaming my arse.

He needs to turn it off a few hours earlier and see if that makes a difference. And it's high time he tried doing a few night feeds with expressed milk. As others have said, you may well find baby takes a bottle when it's not coming from you with your nice milky smell. Even if baby won't, I can't fathom why you would even consider allowing DH not to be at least doing the settling for any feeds before 2am? Have you even raised this with him? Not that you should have to, but has it been discussed?

[MLGs]

Well, yes, in reality I have always pulled myself up short of going full-circle with bedtimes/ getting-up times because it would be too antisocial. So, a bit like you ouryve, I would stop once I was going to bed at about 3am, getting up around midday or so when I was a student in the holidays. But I've always felt I could go full-circle if all social norms went out of the window.

[TimeToMuskUp]

I'm a night owl in the sense that I can go to bed at 2am and be back up at 7am feeling great. Some people just don't need as much sleep as others. I don't buy into the "I can't function in the mornings" stuff, though, because when you're a parent you can't pick and choose when to parent. You just crack on with it and complain how tired you are later, like everyone else.

Your DH sounds as though he needs to take on more responsibility around the house and stop opting out.

[ifcatscouldtalk]

I think he needs to try a bit harder than staying in bed till 1pm. I say this even though i am a night owl. I hate early mornings, anything before 9am i feel like death warmed up but life doesnt revolve around me hating early starts. Dd still has to get to school and i need to be at work. I admit now shes a bit older i cherish a lay in till 10 at the weekend, even shes in bed till 9 then has breakfast with her dad . I've waffled but basically i do understand a preference for late nights but most of us don't have the luxury of getting up at 1pm and seem to manage.

[LillianGish]

Faffing around until the wee hours and then not getting up and pulling your weight when you have a family (especially a family with young children) is just self indulgent.^^This.
Also staying up all night gaming does not constitute being an owl, it means you are an addict.
OP YANBU. If your DH truly is an owl find him some jobs to do while he's up all night (ironing, unpacking the dishwasher, cleaning the bathroom, mopping the floors - anything that doesn't make too much noise) otherwise its just like living with a teenager (spoken by someone who lives with a teenager).

[suzannecaravaggio]

those people who say they run on 25/26/27 hour cycles. That is exactly how I feel - that naturally I run on a longer cycle

MLG I had some idea that this is at the root of the lark/owl thing?
Ie, the internal clock either runs short or long, if it runs short then if unchecked by external cues you tend to get up and go to bed earlier and earlier.
If it runs short then you default to later and later

[ouryve]

The issue for the OP is not his night owl tendencies but the way he uses it as an excuse to opt out of parenting/family time.

Absolutely. There comes a time when people need to stop living like teenagers.

MLGs back in the day when I had no kids and a long summer holiday, I found that I drifted towards about a 4am bedtime, but never any further because I hated getting up after about 10am - felt like I was missing out on the day too much.

One thing I discovered way back in 6th form, after being practically weaned on tea and coffee is that me and caffeine didn't really get along. These days, I make myself a bucket of fairly potent proper coffee, when I get up, and then that's usually it for the day, unless I'm out and about and very active and fancy a cappucino, early afternoon.

[SchnitzelVonKrumm]

What AddToBasket said. Your problem is that your DH is a lazy self-indulgent man-child.

There should be a special Mumsnet for grown men who spend hours obsessing over computer games.

[MLGs]

Add to basket that is definitely right.

Have just rtft but don't want to repeat what I said earlier on. It does sound like you are an owl too, but you're not getting the choice to be. Also agree with whoever said he should do a list of jobs at night if he is such an owl.

Also really interested in those people who say they run on 25/26/27 hour cycles. That is exactly how I feel - that naturally I run on a longer cycle, and if left alone would go to bed and get up a couple of hours later each day, thereby eventually getting back to where I started off! So I guess some days I would be a lark by default. We obviously needed to be born on a different planet!

[AddToBasket]

He's choosing. He's choosing 'responsibility free time' over 'adult real life time'. The night owl stuff is just a side track.

[suzannecaravaggio]

'takes 2hours to have breakfast and get dressed (watching things on his phone angry)'
'he's busy gaming'

hardly an asset is he

sounds like in his mind gaming is his baby
or the baby is supposed to count as a hobby and way for you to relax

[Bogeyface]

Ourvye I did that today and yesterday. Had a truly shitty day on Tuesday and have spent the last 2 nights awake until 4 am, still got up at 8 to get the kids ready and to school though.

The issue for the OP is not his night owl tendencies but the way he uses it as an excuse to opt out of parenting/family time.

[Bogeyface]

If he is gaming then that is why he cant sleep. He switches it off and goes to bed but his brain is still whirring from being overstimulated. I cant watch TV or use the PC at bedtime or that will do the same to me.

If you go to bed at 9 then he has 3 hours until midnight to game in, then there should be an agreement he turns it off so at least he has a fighting chance of getting to sleep.

[ouryve]

I'm a night owl. Left to my own devices, I run on a 25 hour cycle.

As it is, I go to bed and get up later than DH, most days, but do what I can to stop myself drifting. It sometimes means I'm up at 7am after just 3 hours' sleep, but that's life.

[Grilledaubergines]

I'm a night owl and to me it's completely normal. I've always been one and it's just the way it is. I sleep at the correct time for me and see no reason to change it. We're all different and I'm sure it's testing for you that your DH doesn't have the same sleep pattern as you but not sure there's anything you can do about it.