To think that *some* people paying for healthcare *some* of the time would be no bad thing.

[manicinsomniac]

I am a big fan of the NHS and think it would be terrible if we lost it.

However, I think we could help prevent that happening by it being not quite so free as we are accustomed to, iyswim.

I had to go to my GP today for help with my totally avoidable and self inflicted health condition. I was given an appointment just 3 hours after phoning and the doctor was calm, non judgmental and extremely helpful. I am independent adult with a good, full time job.

I can't see why I, and people like me, shouldn't pay a token amount towards GP appointments, just like we do for the dentist. Even just £10-£15 a visit could make a huge difference on a national scale, surely.

Obviously if you are a) poor b) have an illness or disability that requires frequent appointments c) are a child or d) need expensive treatment/care then the NHS is vital and must remain free.

But I don't see the need for this 'free at the point of use' thing for all people in all situations. If you can pay for standard, infrequent appointments then I think it would be fine to be made to.

AIBU?

[manicinsomniac]

I appreciate the 'slippery slope' argument.

[seeThereWeAreThen]

Once you take a away a universal benefit, and make it a means tested its easier to reduce, reduce then remove.

You get the arguments of, why should we pay for them? Are they deserving enough? Why should I pay for me then pay for them?, lazy people. they want something for nothing, if they all worked hard enough they could afford their own health insurance.

[TwinkleCrinkle]

I don't think the op is saying that she wants to pay for something that is free to her. It sounds to me like she would pay if it helped to keep it free for those who can't afford it.

[hibbleddible]

thecatsmeow you are right, but the amount it will cost will increase exponentially each year. Most people are not willing to pay more tax to fund the NHS.

Many are also happy to sit back and watch the systematic dismantling of the NHS, of which the imposition of the new junior doctor's contract it a big part. It will be hard to have a health service without staff.

Misuse of services is also a big issue. Did you know that A&E attendances have increased 48% in the last 15 years, with only a 10% increase in population?

[manicinsomniac]

CatsMeow - fee if you're not a) poor, b) have an illness or disability that requires frequent appointments c) are a child or d) need expensive treatment/care.
The self inflicted thing was a red herring; sorry.

Samcro - What do you see as special about smears? That they're voluntary? I guess I'd just want to use the same rules for them as for everything else.

[Samcro]

we would end up back in the days when the poor just died....they couldn't afford a doctor(omg Ihope scameron doesn't see this thread)

[JasperDamerel]

Rather than well off people paying to see a GP per visit surely it would make more sense (and be fairer) for very well-off people to pay more tax?

[UndramaticPause]

I agree, and I'm at some form of medical appointment on a weekly basis or more.

[arethereanyleftatall]

Jasper - but that way round is just throwing more money in , and not actually fixing one of the problems, which is countless people misusing/exploiting the nhs because it's free.
I have a friend who is a gp - she says approx 95% of her patients didn't need to see her, OTC medicines would have been fine.

[ExitPursuedByABear]

Well I probably wouldn't go if I had to pay for a smear.

And I am going to have my breasts squished next week. If I had to chuck a tenner in the box I might not bother either.

[BeaufortBelle]

It works pretty well in Europe. Healthcare Is better in France than the UK - in my experience anyway.

[Babycham1979]

The waste is not extreme! The admin costs of the NHS are around 7%, compared to 35% in the US and over 10% in other developed nations! The 'waste' trope is a Daily Mail myth.

We spend less than any other developed country as a proportion of GDP. It will only be sustainable if we're prepared to pay for the level of service we expect.

The irony is that, once it's privatised, it will cost us all a lot more than it does now.

[EmbroideryQueen]

YANBU OP!!

I totally agree with you. I know some people on 6 figure salaries who already pay £500 a MONTH for private health insurance (a luxury). If they have that much money, why should they be allowed to get free NHS care for every minor ailment? To me, that should be an abuse of the system.

I would be very happy for people on that level of income to pay upfront for a great deal of services to further subsidise those on lower incomes.

In general, I'm in favour of more services being means tested.

[bakeoffcake]

Wouldn't the simplest idea be to put taxes up a little?
If, for example everyone earning over 30K paid an extra penny in the pound tax, which was ONLY spent on the NHS, that would raise a huge amount.
I don't understand why they don't just do that the system is already there to collect the money.

[sillyoldfool]

YABU
just raise taxes.
One of the reasons that universal benefits work is that the powerful get something out of them and so stick up for them. Means test and it would get chipped away and dismantled.

[bakeoffcake]

Sorry I didn't see Jasper had already suggested tax rises.

I'm sorry arethereanyleftatall but I don't believe '95%' of your GP friend's patients don't need to see her.

[CandOdad]

Because this is the thin end of the wedge. Once charging is in place then why not tweet it little by little until free is a means tested benefit only. Then if doctors do it then A&E should too, followed by more incremental charging.

One day we wake up and suddenly we have an NHS but only for those in immediate life threatening situations and people with preventable disease not going because they can't pay.

[arethereanyleftatall]

I believed her. I'm not sure what she would have to gain by making it up.

[hibbleddible]

babycham the waste that bluejug is referring to is misuse of services. This is completely separate to admin costs.

Misuse of services is a huge issue for the NHS, and happens at all levels.

Just one source:
m.emj.bmj.com/content/15/6/368

[CousCousDefinitely]

Yanbu. When I lived in the UK for 4 years, the two times I went to the gp were for vaccinations for going on an exotic holiday and the second time was for that pill that you take to delay your period so I didn't get it for my wedding.
Both times I had cash ready to pay as I assumed it wouldn't be free. Neither was a health issue as such. They were luxury items as far as I was concerned.
I live in Ireland now where a gp visit is €50 each time. What a contrast.

[hibbleddible]

At least 50% of visits to A&E are inappropriate: either the patient is well, or they could be treated by their GP or a walk in centre.

[Muskateersmummy]

I kinda do agree, but it's a very tricky one. The system can not go on as it is, we can't keep raising and raising taxes. If nothing else we should be charging for the did not attend appointments that cost the NHS a flaming fortune !

[arethereanyleftatall]

I wonder how much they would raise if they had a donations box at surgeries. I reckon a fair bit.

[ouryve]

I need to make an appointment with one of our GPs for a medication review. So far, the only ones visible to me are with the one who routinely treats everyone like something he stepped in. No way do I want to pay £15 to be belittled, even though I can afford it..

[bakeoffcake]

I'm not sure either arethere but she must work in a very healthy area, as she must see very little depression, diabetes, cancer, high blood pressure, very few people needing statins, antibiotics etc etc etc. Where is this mega healthy place?