former Dragon's Den panelist trial

[onceuponalurker]

AIBU to not see all the threads about this now acquitted Dragon? Where is the outrage?

[LurcioAgain]

dustarr - the issue here is not the 13 year old's burgeoning sexuality, it is what the appropriate response to that sexuality should be in a mature (57 year old, ffs) adult.

The morally correct response is a pat on a head and "I remember being your age, all hormones... try and wait a bit longer if you can and if you can't go and play with someone your own age." Fucking a 13 year old is not a morally correct response.

[dustarr73]

Being 13 is not a get out of jail card either.
It was a sugar daddy website, so it was quite obvious what was going to occur.

Her parents obviously didn't keep a close enough eye on what she was up too.There are also partly to blame.

He didn't join a Teenage video game forum and groom her.He joined an Adult site looking for an ADULT.

[VulcanWoman]

Horrible.

I think Katie Price posting that picture of her daughter like that is awful too. Dressing up/make up at home is one thing but posting that on social media, awful.

[LurcioAgain]

Then you and I will have to disagree, durstarr. I think being 13 is a get-out-of-jail-free card in this instance as regards any blame that attaches to the child. There is no moral excuse ever for a 57 year old having sex with a 13 year old. (Are you by any chance a member of the British judiciary?)

[dustarr73]

He didn't know she was 13 and no I'm a member of British judiciary,whatever that is.This is the thing is hat happens when young people play adult games.
She was bound to get hurt but we don't know if its her first time and it got out of hand.

At the end of the day she joined the website,she went out and met him.She has to take some responsibility for her actions.

[ImperialBlether]

He's got children and must have known she was very young, though, and he was really foolish not asking for some ID. Without that he was really leaving himself open to a trial. And anyone can tick a box online to say they're over 18 - he would know that wasn't enough for him to actually believe it.

[DrSeussRevived]

"Her parents obviously didn't keep a close enough eye on what she was up too.There are also partly to blame."

No, the person to blame for putting his penis into a 13 year old is the person with said penis.

Given the 13 year old took a friend with her, assume she told her parents they were having a trip together, or each told the other they were sleeping over at the other's place. Would it occur to any parent that perhaps a 57 year old would be paypalling some money to facilitate penetrating their young daughter?

[DrSeussRevived]

The victim's friend was 15 and Doug Richard also asked the 15 year old if she would have sex with him.

[prh47bridge]

no I'm a member of British judiciary,whatever that is

LurcioAgain is asking if you are a judge.

And anyone can tick a box online to say they're over 18 - he would know that wasn't enough for him to actually believe it.

The jury will have seen the girl involved. They clearly concluded that it was reasonable for a man who had actually met this girl to believe she was 16 or over. If they looked at her and thought that no man who saw her could possibly believe she was 16 or over they would have convicted. It is clearly not reasonable to believe someone is 16 or over just because they say so online.

[ZanyMobster]

I absolutely think that 13 yos can look 18, I did and still only weighed 6.5 stone when I was 19. Even if I was with my parents then men would make comments to my dad about me (if we were in the pub) assuming I was older and nor his daughter.

That said, in this day and age I think you have to be responsible for knowing how old someone is if you are going to sleep with a stranger. I absolutely believe that it is your responsibility to ensure you are not sleeping with a minor. I have this disagreement with my dad all the time, he insists that if you met someone in a pub who was drinking then you can assume they are overage and it's not your fault if they are not. I understand why he says this as a close friend end of ours (in their 70s now) was 19 and met someone in a pub, they had a one night stand with them then ended up being charged for having sex with someone who was underage. It has of course been on his record his whole working life and as he required a CRB/DBS he always felt he needed to disclose this regularly.

At 57, this guy is disgusting as the girls were clearly very very young even if they were 16/17.

[DrSeussRevived]

But if "everybody knows" 13 year olds can look 17, then "everybody " needs to reset their boundaries of what 13 and 17 look like, or make damn sure they have some other method of ascertaining it, or - novel idea - not have sex straight away with anyone who might be on that boundary, but wait until you are sure.

[ZanyMobster]

Absolutely DrSeuss, at the end of the day it's to safeguard yourself so why people take chances I have no idea.

[FedoraTheExplora]

This is the 14 year old Kylie Jenner's boyfriend was messaging. It's scary how many young girls look so much older than they are. I see pictures of my little cousins friends on facebook (12/13) - practically in underwear, push up bras etc.

It really is frightening. Not that it excuses this sleazeball for a minute. But I'm 23, and girls didn't look like that when even I was that age.

[Highsteaks]

Given the 13 year old took a friend with her, assume she told her parents they were having a trip together, or each told the other they were sleeping over at the other's place. Would it occur to any parent that perhaps a 57 year old would be paypalling some money to facilitate penetrating their young daughter?

Tbh, of I found out my 13 year old had signed up to a 'Sugar Daddy' website, presumably looking for wealthy blokes, and had had sex with a 57 year old in exchange for money, then I would feel like I had utterly failed as a parent. I can't imagine the 13 year old had had the best upbringing to get to a place where she thought that was a good idea.

But ultimately the onus is on the man to ensure that the person he is penetrating is not a child. As said upthread, I don't think there is any 13 year old you could get intimate with, and be able to safely say, 'yes, this person is 100% definitely over the age of consent'. And if there is even a shred of doubt, its up to the adult to say 'actually, I only like sex with people I can be absolutely sure are fully consenting' and send the child on their way.

[nebulae]

The fact that he was found "not guilty" doesn't necessarily mean the jury though he was not guilty. Doesn't necessarily mean they believed him when he said he though she was older. The onus is on the prosecution to prove it beyond reasonable doubt. If they didn't, the jury had no choice but to find him not guilty.

I sat on a jury in a case of sexual assault on a child under 16 (for obvious reasons, I won't mention any specifics). We found him "not guilty". He did it, we had no doubt about that, but the prosecution didn't prove it. On the facts presented at court we had no choice but to find him "not guilty". It still doesn't sit well with me.

[DrSeussRevived]

Steaks, so would I. I just objected to the idea that the parents were "partly to blame" rather than Doug Richard.

[Kreacherelf]

Poor girls. I hope they manage to find peace with what happened.

I agree that he is smart enough to know better, and he probably did. I imagine he had a very expensive lawyer to get out of this pickle.

[OwlCurrency]

Plenty of people look much older or younger than they actually are. There is no specific defining feature of an eighteen year old that he could be reasonably expected to check. Apart from ID, which has been mentioned. But that could also be forged!

He was tried in court and found not guilty. Only on MN is that not sufficient.

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

so he choose to believe she was 17

yet didn't think to question if she was that age as she had the look he wanted, small, petite and a body of a young teenager and of course his responsibility is only to his dick

it is shameful

and his wife well I hope she finds the strength to walk away and gain back some respect for herself

[JingsAndCrivens]

People are discussing the details which is kind of inevitable. If he didn't want that he shouldn't have trawled the internet looking for sex with teens.

[PosieReturningParker]

I thought this was statutory rape. That meant no defence as it's not subjective... seems I must be wrong.

[DilysPrice]

No such offence as statutory rape in England. He was charged with unlawful sexual conduct with a minor, to which he defended himself by claiming that he reasonably believed she was over 16 (you can't claim that if the girl is 12, but you can if she's 13 or over) and with paying for sexual services with a child to which he defended himself by saying the money he gave her was just a gift, not payment for sex. The jury accepted his defence (or at least accepted that he'd raised reasonable doubt) on those points.

[PosieReturningParker]

There absolutely is.

[PosieReturningParker]

But they govern under 13, mentally disabled and people who cannot consent.

[DrSeussRevived]

Owl, a 57 year old had sex with a 13 year old. No party disputes that.

This discussion is broader and touches on the general responsibility to check the age of your sexual partner, the ridiculousness of him trawling for a teenager at least 40 years younger etc.