To think from a patient's point of view there is no such thing as a "routine" operation?

[Oneandtwoandthree]

Over the last few years my family have had to undergo a number of medical procedures that would be classed as routine by the medical profession including:

Kidney removal
Hernia repair
Cartilage repair
Hysterectomy

There have been long waits for these operations (longest 18 months, shortest 20 weeks), and during that time the patient has been unwell and/or in pain. When speaking to the doctors they were all I presume trying to reassure by saying don't worry you are just waiting for a routine operation. It maybe routine for them, but for the patient it's a life changing hopefully one off operation nothing routine about it at all.

What's made me now write this post is that with regards to the junior doctor's strike this week, the doctor's were saying that "only routine operations were cancelled" like that's okay because they were routine.

But for those patients affected AIBU to think there is nothing routine about the operation? The operation will hopefully cure, improve or enhance their life in some way - otherwise why would they be having it.

AIBU to think that doctors need to stop thinking of common or high occurrence operations as routine (which I appreciate they are for the doctor) as they are not for the patient?

[sashh]

So- why don't they say 'non-emergency' or 'planned' then?

Because it may well be planned. Do you remember the Irish conjoined twins separated in London? That was a planned operation, planned over weeks if nor months, but it was not routine in any way. It was also non emergency.

Had it been planned during the strike I'm fairly sure it would have gone ahead.

[elliejjtiny]

I have to say most drs and nurses I have known treat the people worrying about their/their child's more minor illnesses with the same care and respect that they do for the people with more major concerns to worry about. After all it's all relative and I know I worried just as much about my very healthy pfb as I do with my 4th dc who has complex health needs.

The only other time things were downplayed was when I had DS4 at 35 weeks. The dr cheerfully said he'd be fine born that early as he was a good weight and probably wouldn't need to go to scbu. We'd both be home within 48 hours. He ended up in neonatal for 4 weeks and has long term health issues because of his prematurity. The nurses in neonatal said it was fairly common for a 35 week baby to have those problems.

[dratsea]

citydoc Most major disasters in lap choles happen ops 30 - 50 but got to 500 by the time I retired with only three mishaps, all in first 30-100.

[dratsea]

manamanah "If they were as emotionally invested in the procedure as the patients they would have a hard time maintaining necessary objectivity" Was but did.

[ohdearlord]

I don't know. I've had lots of the same op. And will have in the future. I quite like knowing it's routine. It's just something that we factor in. Helps with perspective for me.

[thecitydoc]

Drs use the term "routine operation" as a way of reassuring patients. All operations carry a risk but the more times a surgeon performs an operation the likelihood is that the risk diminishes - so for them it is routine as would be an electrician changing a plus or installing a new light fitting. Emergency surgery can also be "routine" if the surgeon has performed it many times - so routine means "I have done this lots of times and it is relatively straight forward.

[manamanah]

of course it means something different to doctors. If they were as emotionally invested in the procedure as the patients they would have a hard time maintaining necessary objectivity.

[dratsea]

ellie if operations were simple the admin staff could do them. And I am sorry a doctor could have advised you otherwise.

[wonkylegs]

I've never had my c-sections (emergency with DS & planned forthcoming) downplayed. In fact even my ERPC with my miscarraige was treated sympathetically but seriously. I met one MW who was a bit rude about it once but I think she was generally a bit rude and was the exception rather than the rule.
I do think that my obstetric teams have all been fab though, I have opted for a larger hospital with a better rep & facilities than my local one for this pregnancy and I was in the best one in the region for the last one.

[Owllady]

I wish they wouldn't downplay c sections. It is major abdominal surgery.

[elliejjtiny]

I support the strike of the junior drs. DS2's "routine" op was going to be moved because it was on a day they might be striking but they went with a different day to strike in the end so DS2's op is safe.

I do think the words "routine" and "simple procedure" are used by some drs without thinking. I was in hospital at 35 weeks pregnant with DS5 and the dr was worried that my heart rate was too high. I said it was probably because my baby kept flipping breech and I was scared about C-section and she very dismissively told me that it was a "simple procedure" which made me feel a bit silly for worrying. Afterwards (I did end up with a C-section in the end) DS4's paediatrician came and visited me in HDU, and sympathetically asked me how I was feeling after my "horrible surgery". I will never forget that dr and how nice she was that day. It was purely a social visit too and I suddenly went from being the poor woman in HDU with no visitors to being the woman who was visited by a consultant paediatrician. I think she made the obstetric people rather nervous and confused when she swept in without warning mid ward round and started chatting to me as she wasn't the dr caring for DS5 or even working in the maternity department at all that day!

[Anotherusername1]

routine operations are not life threatening so I think it is fine they have been cancelled for the strike.

I don't because those patients will be in pain. Now they'll be in pain until they can be fitted in for another op. I understand the doctors' frustrations but the strike is incredibly damaging. Imagine being in pain and having to go back on the waiting list. I'm sure some patients will get earlier cancellation slots, but others will have to wait months all over again.

[dratsea]

Those are the very operations we (patient/parent/I) planned for a specific date with care arranged for care for sibling (been told off for using H word) or respite care for husband/wife with dementia or had to be done by me, that were cancelled by management because not urgent, in no danger of breaching and an ingrowing toenail on the (not my) books had to be done by that day.

I refused to have a waiting list. Everyone got a date for surgery in outpatients, could be next week, could be in November if a farmer or May if a ski instructor, week after last GCSE exam for 15 yr old. But I did not have a waiting list. Hence encouraged to take early retirement at 60.

Good to see support for junior doctors on MN and on this thread, there was a time (age 40) employed, rather paid, as if I was still a "junior doctor" and the most experienced surgeon on the team.

Sorry op. It was not the junior doctors saying "only routine" ops were cancelled, it was not the doctors, it was politics.

God help the NHS.

[Moreisnnogedag]

But some surgery, although planned, is urgent. Its a term to allow list planning that's all.

[HPsauciness]

So- why don't they say 'non-emergency' or 'planned' then? Sometimes the word 'routine' is deliberately used, I think, as it does have different connotations than 'non-emergency'.

[ghostyslovesheep]

It's just a term - I have had a few 'routine' ops - at no point did the word bother me!

The destruction of the NHS does bother me - lots!

[Alibabsandthe40Musketeers]

By 'routine' they mean non-emergency. Someone who needs an emergency surgery to save their life will still get it.

It isn't a comment on the experience for the patient or for the staff.

[HPsauciness]

I agree with you that the word 'routine' often appears to be used in this context to downgrade certain procedures or make them seem a bit minor, when as you say, they are often life-changing for patients and not doing them leaves the person routinely disabled in their everyday lives.

This doesn't make me question the junior dr's strike- for the reason Babycham points out, having over-tired juniors making decisions, either over planned operations or emergencies, is a bad thing.

[Babycham1979]

Your routine operation poses a much higher risk of complications if performed by an over-worked junior. Part of the reason they're taking industrial action is to preserve care quality and safety.

Plenty of people find flying terrifying and do it infrequently; they have my utmost sympathies. That doesn't change the fact that for the pilot and the cabin crew, take-off, landing and severe turbulence are utterly routine.

[Katenka]

I think the use of 'routine' in the situation was poorly chosen. I do kind of get what the OP is saying.

It isn't routine to the person having it and being told 'your operation is routine to its fine if we cancel it' can be upsetting.

I think 'non emergency' would have been better phrase.

I have no problem with the use of 'routine' in general.

[SleepyForest]

I support doctors right to strike if they feel they need to. It is really shitty for the patients though as they are vulnerable and in pain.

Perhaps doctors should just refuse to treat politicians? Although they don't use the nhs do they?

[wonkylegs]

I heard many many drs express regret to patients over the effects of the strike and I think the vast majority of drs are very aware of the effects of cancellations on patients. Which is why my DH didn't take a day of planned leave the other month to do an extra days worth of procedures to knock down the waiting list caused by the beds crisis in his hospital - the strike actually had no effect on waiting lists for his dept, they cancelled no proceedures, more consultants worked to cover, the beds crisis caused by a lack of nursing staff had a far bigger impact.

[Tigerblue]

I think the doctors have had to make a tough decision. I can see this from two points on a personal basis:

DD has recently had a "routine" operation, but you always know there's a slight chance it could have been cancelled and have to accept that. There were problem immediately before she went into theatre, they remained very calm and DD wasn't even aware there was an issue. As said the treatment is routine for the doctors, but to the patient it's an essential thing and most worry about it.

Going back a few years DD had to have an emergency operation. Was told she'd be taken to theatre before 8pm as that's when they finished their shift. They came for her just after 8pm and when we went up to recovery at 11pm, it was the same young team there - they'd stayed on to check she was okay afterwards and update us. Asked them if they'd be paid and the answer was "no". There'd be a lot of us moaning if our DH/OH stayed on an extra three hours and didn't get paid or have time in lieu.

[Owllady]

He is such an obnoxious shithead