WWYD - friendship thing

[Morecheesegrommet]

Alison and Barbara meet at a business event a long way from Barbara’s home town. Turns out Alison is moving to Barbara’s home town, so Barbara meets Alison for coffee, introduces Alison to her friends, invites on her on girls’ weekends away, etc. Barbara also helps Alison make business connections as they both work in the same field. Claire – a close friend of Barbara’s – makes friends with Alison through Barbara and the 3 couples meet regularly as the DHs also get on well.
A few years down the line, Alison starts to be cold towards Barbara who picks up on it. Eventually Barbara sends Alison an email saying she had noticed there was something wrong and asking if they could sort it out. Alison responds with a long email accusing Barbara of various (untrue) stuff and ends the friendship.
Claire decides not to get involved because she feels it is nothing to do with her. She continues her close friendship with Alison. Barbara is hurt by this – she thinks friends should stick up for each other when it gets tough – so she decides to minimise contact with Claire so she can move on and forget the whole thing. Claire wants to be friends with both Alison and Barbara because she didn’t cause or contribute to the argument - so she thinks Barbara is being unreasonable to back away from their friendship.
So who is BU – Barbara or Claire? What would you want your friends to do in this situation?

[do11y]

Saxons, yes I see what you're saying. In light of this, I'd like to rephrase my assessment:

if Claire is aware for a fact that one person is treating the other unfairly / unkindly, then I believe she has some responsibility to act on behalf of the other, because it can take years to get over things and it will be much worse with no support from friends who understand the situation.

[Saxons]

You don't have the full picture. You only have babs take on it. C possibly might have a much fuller picture. In which case she might feel its not appropriate to take sides.

[do11y]

OP - is it possible that C actually believes A's side but chooses to remain friends with B regardless? It could be that C is dumfounded by B's treatment of A (based on the stuff she understands from A), yet has decided that regardless of how B treats A, B is good friend to her therefore decides to withhold judgement.

[do11y]

Very interesting topic. I am sad to say that I have been in Babs' position before. Except in my case, Claire was actually several friends and Alison was a sick twisted arsehole who, because she had cancer, I think used that crutch to turn our group against my partner and I (the back story was that Alison lived 1.5 hours away from us and we were often going over to see them, them never reciprocating. So one day I was having a party and invited Alison and her husband as I always did, not expecting them to turn up. Anyway, she calls me up and says they'll come. I was so surprised by the affirmation, I asked several times. Yes, they're coming, she says. So I go out and buy up a storm, as it so happened to be A's birthday in a few days time, so I buy birthday gumph with the intention of turning my party into a surprise birthday bash for A. Then - literally an hour before they're meant to turn up, A calls me up to say her husband has a sore back so can't drive. Bullocks! They're just too fu*ing lazy to make the trip! So I ask her straight out if that is the real reason or if they just cannot be bothered. I am angry as a lot of work, time and money has gone into the party. Ok A didn't know it had morphed into a surprise party for her, but still I was livid that yet again they let us down). So she plays on her cancer and all our mutual friends think I am the cnt for calling A's integrity into question. Partner and I were literally ostracised and sidelined from that group for years! Made me realise exactly who my real friends were. I guess the thing I wanted most from those friends was the same sympathy and empathy they were giving A. Nobody wanted to listen to my side.
A died a few years ago and one or two of the friends from that group made contact again, but I am not bothered. Her arsehole husband also re-added me on FB, which I declined. It took literally years to get over the rejection of that group and I cannot say I am not sorry about that death of A. Just because she died doesn't mean I am going to forget what a manipulative arsehole she was.
I haven't bothered with that group since and whilst I am sad to have lost those friends they showed the measure of their worth so why even have them in your life?

So in conclusion, I think, if Claire is aware for a fact that Alison is being an shitbag, then she has some responsibility to act on behalf of Barbara, because it can take years to get over things and it will be much worse with no support from friends who understand the situation.

[Morecheesegrommet]

It makes me feel sad that Babs thought Claire was a close friend. The best. But when somebody slated her, C stood back and decided not to get involved.
Do you ever have the right to expect a friend to stand up for you, even without proof or evidence, but just because they know you have a good heart based on years of friendship? Or are we all ultimately on our own and we have no right to expect anybody to have our back?

[Morecheesegrommet]

saxons - babs has not tried to manipulate c's friendships. She left it up to c to decide and then backed off when she realised C was still going to be good friends with A. She never asked c to do anything.
munkisocks - c may well have talked to a about what happened. C may believe what A said. I don't know.

[munkisocks]

I think Claire should ask Alison why she fell out with Barbara.

[giantpurplepeopleeater]

I have been in a situation a bit like this where I have backed away from friend C because I felt that her contuing on like nothing had happened was condoning friend A's actions and when knowing some ofnthe nasty things going on was not sticking up for me.

But I've also been in a situation where I've backed away from two people like friend A but kept in touch with one mutual friend C as there wasn't the same degree of feeling that their behaviour was being condoned or that they might share similar views.

I guess it totally depends on the situation but friend B is surely allowed to back away and friend C should really have the abiloty to understand why and empathise, even id she doesn't wish to take sides.

[Saxons]

It's really natural for friends to support each other but that don't mean blindly accepting other people's judgements on situations. A true friend won't always do what you want.

[Saxons]

I would find barbs immature drive to manipulate Clare's friendships rather annoying

[Saxons]

But YOU don't have Alison's version of events really. YOU only have what babs said. Babs interpretation will be her personal version of things. Clare doesn't have to take her word. Clare may have a more rounded balanced take on things as she knows both women well. Just because you know someone longer, doesn't mean they are more truthful.

[blobbityblob]

I can't find the Wendy thread. It was quite a few years ago now.

From memory it was about that situation where you're in a group of friends and you introduce somebody new to the group, out of kindness - perhaps new to the area or something. Then that person manipulates to turn the rest of the group against you and you end up being ousted from the group. Everybody assumes you've had a row so doesn't want to get involved. But you haven't, she's just been an absolute cow to you and you have no way of defending yourself. Any protestations are seen as you being oversensitive, petty, ruining the night out, being horrible to her. It's all very subtle. But many people identified with the thread and had experienced similar.

[Morecheesegrommet]

Is the Wendy thread still around? Could somebody point me in the right direction as I would love to read it.
Claire and Babs haven't officially fallen out and are still in touch, but it is much lower contact.
but sometimes subgroups in friendships die or sprout off in different directions and I have learned it is silly to try and preserve what was - I agree with this comment completely.

[roaringfire]

I have been Barbara - but was ostracised by the wider friendship group who decided that it was in their better interests to be friends with Alison, or who refused to even listen to me as it was none of their business.I had in the past always listened to friends in falling out mode but this did me no good when it came to it.

However, I am about to be a Clare, as two friends have fallen out. I am worried how this will come across to one in particular, but reason that I survived it in the past!

[incywincybitofa]

Honestly life is too short and the number of people in the world too many to be getting worked up by this, when there is potential for so many other friends.
Everyone can choose who to be friends with, but sometimes subgroups in friendships die or sprout off in different directions and I have learned it is silly to try and preserve what was, even if you want someone to see the wrong that someone else has done, they can't wont or shouldn't have to, and if their friendship is that important to you, you accept the choice they make about the other person, and move on, if you can't accept it they aren't as important to you as you would like to think so be brave and try cutting/cooling things off.

So Babs should keep Claire on her Christmas and birthday card list, and just find other friends to sip cocktails with

[CFSsucks]

Alma that's a good point. I've fallen out with a friend, there is a large group of us, I find someone else in the group difficult. First friend and I had an exchange of messages where she said all sorts of stuff to me but when I tried to explain my position she wasn't interested. She said she was only speaking for herself but I strong suspected she had 'got' to the group. As a result I barely see or hear from them. On the odd occasion I see them they are lovely and chatty and couldn't be nicer. I suspect they are being very two faced as they still don't have anything to do with me on a day to day basis. I believe it all has to do with when I fell out with first friend and they don't seem to want to hear from me about it at all. No doubt they would say they are keeping out of it but they aren't by excluding me because of it.

[PitPatKitKat]

Another vote for Alison really being called Wendy.

So I think it highly likely that neither Barbara or Claire are being unreasonable, they are just being manipulated by a Wendy.

I don't think it's reasonable generally to expect people to take sides in a genuine dispute. However it is different if one person attacks the other rather than it being a disagreement. Loyalty is an important part of friendship, and part of being loyal is defending your friends when they are attacked.

[CFSsucks]

My immediate thought was Barbara has been Wendied too.

From Claire's point of view, she is friends with both and trying not to choose sides, which technically should be the right thing to do.

On the other hand, Barbara was a good friend to Claire for years, was a great friend to Alison then Alison shit all over Barbara. In those circumstances, I would like to think that Claire had my back tbh. I'd feel very hurt if I was Barbara and quite probably, would want to walk away from the whole thing too.

I thought you were Claire OP.

[AlmaMartyr]

Really not easy to say in this situation I think. I would sort of expect a very good friend to back me up if I was being treated terribly badly but equally, I don't think much of people who ditch friends on someone else's say-so. I've been in a situation where a couple of friendships went sour and then lost loads more friends who believed the other side of the story... or who weren't interested in hearing mine anyway. Obviously there were two sides to the story, as always, so maybe I deserved it but I did think less of those who couldn't even talk to me about it.

It might be that Claire does think less of Alison but doesn't feel that it's worth losing a friend yet.

[blobbityblob]

What Barbara should do is keep in contact with Claire and wait. Because Alison will eventually crap on Claire too. Claire will be outraged and very suprised and Barbara will be able to say, well you saw how she treated me, why are you surprised?

[MonstrousPippin]

Is A a 'Wendy?' Though taken several years to show her true colours if she is.

I immediately thought 'Wendy!' as well, Pancakeflipper

[Morecheesegrommet]

I do know Alison through Babs, but not well enough to talk to her about this. Plus, as you can tell from my posts, I believe Babs account of events. She has never done anything remotely along the lines of the claims Alison has made - it would be completely out of character for her.
But I am good friends with Claire too and see that she has been put in a really difficult position. Personally, I think Babs should have shown Claire the email and let her draw her own conclusions.
I think I am coming to the conclusion that neither Babs nor Claire are BU. They are both just doing what they think is right for them individually in a crap situation.

[kiwimumof2boys]

I've been 'Barbara' before. And although I was initally hurt that the several 'Claires' I was friends with also maintained their friendship with 'Alison', Alison lost the plot several months later and screamed and abused them in public over other issues i believe (apparently Alison was posessive, and was unhappy they were friends with me still). Cue the 'Claires' ending their friendship with Alison.

One of the 'Claires' told me our 'Alison' kept talking and asking about me, and was a bit put out I never spoke of her during those few months they were friends with us both! I told myself early on to take the high road and never spoke of her at all, and that wound her up! (She liked being centre of attention).

[Asskicker]

And I have been Barbara too.

I didn't even speak to Claire about it. I recognised that while Alison had been horrible to me, that she was a good friend to Claire. I did worry that Claire would be the next victim but it hasn't happened yet.

[Trills]

Claire is saying that it is OK for Alison to treat Barbara like crap

No, Claire is sensibly acknowledging that she doesn't really know what went on between Alison and Barbara - she is probably being told different things by different people.

Claire is optimistically hoping that somehow both her friends are good people who just had a misunderstanding, or pessimistically waiting for whichever one is a bitch to show their true colours when she can see them.