To be absolutely fucking sick of my four year old

[sunnyawry]

I am aware how bad this sounds but he's being SUCH a shit I am really struggling today. it's like he is deliberately trying to provoke me he just pushes and pushes until I can't stay calm. I've just made him a drink and offered him 2 biscuits, and subsequently agreed he could have 'just one more'. Sat down to feed the baby and he goes for the biscuits insisting he's having more. My staying calm, saying no, counting etc did nothing apart from getting a gleeful grin off him. To my shame I then resorted to wrestling the biscuits off him. He went back for the tin so I yelled he wasn't having biscuits EVER AGAIN and sent him to sit on the step. I really shrieked. I just got rage. Sounds so stupid over a custard creme, but I just don't want him to think he can walk all over me.

So then he was in tears but refuses to stay on the step to give us both time out. I went upstairs to calm down but he just follows me around wailing. I locked me and the baby in the bathroom and he just stood outside yelling and hammering on the door. This cannot be normal!!!! This is just one example from a whole day of incidents and similar over the past weeks. I tried to talk to him calmly afterwards, if just escalated again because he insisted he was 'in charge' and that he would just get daddy to give him a biscuit later.
I'm actually sick of him and can't enjoy his company at all anymore because he always spoils it by twatting around. It's like if he gets a sniff that something annoys me he will put all his effort into doing it. Eg I asked him nicely to not climb on me / pull at my clothes, that's all I get so I end up getting off the floor and moving. We could have just played nicely and he could have got lots of attention. I just don't understand him at all.

I am clearly doing something very wrong

[Coldlightofday]

He sounds similar to my DS. With the non stop imaginary play and the "helping"

I have found cutting dead any arguments when I know I will not budge works well- "I am not talking about this any more" - this has become a phrase he is used to and whilst it used to cause an almighty fuss (albeit fairly short lived) he now knows that if I say that, there is really no point in carrying on.

He also has many, many jobs - putting socks away, dusting(he's shit at it, but he loves it), cleaning the bathroom etc Obvs all the jobs need redoing, but it keeps him occupied and gives lots of opportunities to praise him - which means when he's being super difficult I can say "I know you're such a sensible/calm/helpful boy - remember how awesome you were when you helped mummy do the dusting" I find that massively helps de escalate when he's on the wind up or wobbling towards a tantrum.

If you have a laptop/tablet then the CBeebies games are reLly good for buying you some downtime- more interactive than to if he's not into that.

Having said all that I still lose my shit sometimes 😁

[sunnyawry]

Gosh thanks so much for all the replies. Sorry to those of you also having issues but I am relieved to hear I'm not the only one. I laughed at the CBeebies presenter comment as I often try to emulate them or pretend I am being recorded, to keep the right tone
So we cooked together earlier and he loved it, then we snuggled and we both apologised. He said he wanted to have more time like that. So I need to get creative with ways of finding more 1 on 1 time together, I can hopefully make a start with after school time this week if I can get DD to stay asleep ( whole other thread). I will be able to regroup whole he's at school and approach things with a fresh attitude.
I'm going to go through the thread again properly and make a list of all the points and recommendations to work through.
Thanks again for all the insights.

[FindoGask]

"I found that if I was feeling a bit under the weather my parenting got better - because I didn't have the energy to react in a shrieky way which then confused on the one hand and rewarded them on the other hand - so more of a Bored Policeman voice and less of a high-pitched drama-voice."

I recognise this so much!

[Narp]

Also, I wanted to say that the fact he's nice to the baby does not mean he's not struggling. He's clever enough to know that it would be unacceptable to take his feelings out on her, but you're his mum and you love him, so it's 'safer' to be angry with you (aren't you lucky

[Narp]

I so agree with what tiggerkid says. I have been there too and the mistakes on my end were always in not understanding just how small my sons were. I think what you have to accept is they cannot change their behaviour - what they do is an adaptation to what you are doing - so it is the adult's responsibility to do the changing.

It's really hard when you have a baby and a not-much-more-than-a-toddler. Really tiring and emotionally draining.

I found that if I was feeling a bit under the weather my parenting got better - because I didn't have the energy to react in a shrieky way which then confused on the one hand and rewarded them on the other hand - so more of a Bored Policeman voice and less of a high-pitched drama-voice.

Don't think ahead to what you worry he be like when he's older. You have to be in the here-and-now. I liked the book "Playful Parenting' for that. It's not what it sounds like - permissive parenting, but it helps remind you to look at the world as your child sees it, and to work with the playful side of their character. It helps avoid conflicts over little things like putting coats on.

[ovaryhill]

Young kids can be horrendous and I think it's totally normal to be at the end of your tether sometimes
I remember feeding my newborn whilst the other ones played upstairs peacefully, or so I thought.......
Turns out they had got hold of a tin of paint and opened it all over the bedroom floor
They then took out the new clothes I had bought them to mop it up with along with dragging their duvets through it!
I was completely calm when I saw the mess as I felt if I started I would have turned them into mince!
I sat downstairs and cried silently until dh came home
We laugh about it now, honestly!

[Jw35]

Advice is to hit say no,

Omg my post should have said 'just' say no not hit!

[tiggerkid]

disappointedone no need to be sorry. We are all here to talk and we all have different opinions, suggestions and ideas :) I am completely open to hearing everyone.

[DisappointedOne]

Also, the 4-year old is already at school, is he attending the afterschool club or anything similar to give you relatively low cost childcare for most of the day and some space to focus on the new baby.

I'm sorry but I think this is a terrible suggestion.

[BillSykesDog]

Just stop reacting altogether. It's the only way. If he either gets attention or you cave in (as others have suggested) he gets the message that there is a reward and he will keep on doing it. Just let him tantrum it out. Don't get in an argument or a battle of wills. Just carry on what you're doing and don't be provoked. He will stop doing it when he realises their is no reward and attention and treats are earned by good behaviour.

Incidentally, I think you need to completely separate your feelings about his father from him. Saying that he needs to learn to respect you because his father doesn't sounds worryingly like transference and that you are projecting your frustration with his father's lack of respect onto DS. Remember that with his father it's because he's a dickhead. But with him it's because he's a little child who is in a stressful period, not because he doesn't respect women or because he's like his Dad.

[tiggerkid]

I only have one child but definitely know what it's like to have your nerves tested! He is a teenager now but we have been through many situations where I felt I was at my wits end. Now that the time passed, I really regret every single time I lost my patience because only now I realise how small he was when I was an adult then as I am now. In essence, I treated him as an adult and had expectations to go with that but, yes, he was 4, 5, 6 and maybe even 8 or 9 at the time. Looking at his school photos, I am often so sad and tearful when I think back to all those times and honestly there isn't much I wouldn't give to change some of those situations.

However this doesn't mean I am judging you or think you are unreasonable. Children really do push all limits of your patience but from experience I would agree that choosing your battles might help. Remember that 4-year olds don't understand everything, so if you only want him to eat 2 biscuits, ask him to go out of the room for something and get just 2 biscuits, then say that's all that you have left until you go shopping next time. Taking out the whole tin in front of him is like showing him the whole sweet shop and asking him not to have any sweets. If you want him to turn down the TV because the younger one needs a nap, then try to actually explain why. I remember at least some of these strategies actually working for me despite the fact that obviously there were occasions when nothing seemed to do it.

I would also agree that perhaps there is some sibling jealousy there over the new child. Also, you must remember that you are probably stressed and tired with 2 kids now, so your perspective and patience levels have also changed, which is why at times it would seem as if your 4-year old is doing things to annoy you on purpose.

Ultimately all children are different and I doubt that any suggestions will ever work 100% but see if you can give it a go. Also, the 4-year old is already at school, is he attending the afterschool club or anything similar to give you relatively low cost childcare for most of the day and some space to focus on the new baby. Having 2 young kids for most of the day at home is an awfully long time, which can strain most parents!

Apologies if this seems patronising (definitely wasn't meant that way). Best of luck and hope you have a better week ahead!

[Katastrophe13]

This was me a fe months ago. Have a 4yo ds and a 9 month old DD. When I first had her ds went completely feral and really did feel as though he loved her and hated me. To start with I just let him do what he wanted to cut him some slack but then realised I was making it worse as think that just came across as me no longer caring. I then went back to sticking to boundaries but really rewarding good behaviour and also being super positive around him. Think CBeebies presenter. It's exhausting and sometimes I feel like I've gone a bit mental, but it seems to make him behave better . We went through another bad patch a while ago and I saw on a thread a poster who said she used to write down kind things her Dc did, date them and put them in a jar and they loved going back to read them. I've started something similar with ds now and he is really loving it and has helped the latest rough patch. I am not sure whether locking yourself in the bathroom is normal, but I have also done it if that makes you feel any better. I also get rage from some of his attitude and there is no build up, my head just goes bang, so can't help with how to stop it from happening. Oh yes, and one on one like you are doing now does help.

[MamaLazarou]

You have my sympathies, OP, I screamed at my five-year-old today (in public as well ). All I can suggest is loads of positive attention when he is behaving well, he is obviously trying to push your buttons so you'll engage with him. It's not your fault and perfectly natural but if you only pay him attention when he's naughty, he will wind you up deliberately.

Hope you have a better day tomorrow xx

[Branleuse]

my dd was always a handful like this. Sometimes when its really bad, i kind of lovebomb her. It helps us re-bond at times we really need it, and then it all seems a bit easier

[Wolfiefan]

You're not saying bad things about him. You are just frustrated with his behaviour.
You seem to have negotiated the number of biscuits. You decide a number and he gets no more.
The OH sounds an issue.
Yes his world has been turned upside down BUT he needs clear boundaries and there need to be clear consequences when he misbehaves.

[TheWoodenSpoonOfMischief]

I agree with taking your ds out as much as possible. Fresh air and exercise will be so beneficial.
Play some physical games with him. Things like being the tickle or hug monster and go chase him. Crawl around the floor with him. Play music and dance with him and the baby.
Cuddle him loads.
Set up some activities that he can do while you sit with him and feed the baby. Like cutting up a magazine and sticking bits on to a paper, drawing or writing, looking at some books or watching YouTube clips about funny cats or something.

It's such a stressful time for you all but bringing some fun and laughter into your relationship should help loads.

Look at some playful parenting articles and books. I found it made such a difference to us.

[LovelyBranches]

How does he respond to other commands? Is he competitive? I have no advice from experience, my DS is a baby so sorry if this sounds really naive but I remember that when my niece was getting worked up, a game of how high can you jump or I bet you cant x used to get her to focus on something else for long enough to calm her down. Will your DS enjoy the role of Mummy's best helper if you offer him the chance to go and fetch nappies or wipes for you? He may enjoy feeling useful.

[m0therofdragons]

I used to set out a drink and some snacks for dd1 for when I sat down to feed dtds. I also used any technology available to give me sanity like a Nintendo ds, ipad, DVD.
When I let my dc have biscuits/sweets etc I then make sure something is set up for them to play with as a distraction otherwise the youngest 2 will constantly demand food.
Dd1 only had 2 biscuits a week after church service, dtds had as many as it took to stop them whining at me! All are below average but healthy on the bmi chart.

[DifferentCats]

You might not get into the same situation, but offering something else to eat might work. Say, fruit or cheese?

I tend to give DS two options for things, but really they're both what I want, i.e. 'do you want to wear your yellow or red coat to walk to school?' It gives him the illusion of choice and stops him going apeshit (mostly).

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

Some children just do seem to demand more attention from their parents than others - I've seen children happy to watch tv and play with toys for hours, letting their parents get on with stuff, others are more the follow-around-wailing variety.

The only advice I'd give you is to make sure he doesn't feel pushed out by the baby, as far as your attention goes. Locking yourself in the bathroom with the baby is probably not the best idea, because it makes him feel excluded - hence the wailing and the banging.

'This too shall pass' is the best MN advice I've ever read.

[Nanny0gg]

He is also very, very tired and overwhelmed by his school day.

And if he's perfect at school it's got to come out somewhere (you lucky thing!).

One of my DGC was exactly the same (summer born). So it isn't you (or him).

I think after school he does need some chill-out time so if you could encourage him to watch tv or read a book whilst you feed the baby (sitting next to you) that might help.

Cut yourself some slack - it will calm down soon!

[Furiosa]

sunnyawry we must be the same person as I'm having a really hard time with my 4 years DS and have a baby to look after too.

"he is brilliant with her and so loving, it's me he hates"

I could have written this. It describes our family perfectly. And no, I don't think you should have let him have another biscuit either but how to avoid the atomic fall out from saying "no", well I have no idea

I don't know about you but my DS has his GP's who treat him with food all the time. This really started when DD was born. There were so many treats being handed out to keep him happy he started to put on weight . I makes me furious that the relationship between happiness and sweet snacks is now so firmly cemented in his head. We've not had anything like that in the house for months now but he still ignores me and does whatever he feels like all the time. Your DS pulls your clothes, mine makes train noises at a thousand decibels WHOOOO WHOOOO CHUFF CHUFF!!!! He gets louder the madder I get!

There does seem to be some good advice here though, lots of exercise, no sweet snacks in the house, give him a choice of things to do instead. Fingers crossed it will get better for both of us.

[sunnyawry]

Thanks for all the responses, I am going to put my phone down for a bit and spend some 1-1 with him while baby is asleep. I would just love to get to bedtime with no more tears on either side.

[DifferentCats]

Don't feel bad, OP. I have shouted at my DS in the past when he really just needed some attention. It's just so frustrating when they get your attention by being really, really annoying.

It does work to try positive attention and calming things down with quiet options (the suggestion made about offering to read to him during the feed is great). Ignoring him is going to make him worse and more desperate for your attention.

But seriously, seriously, don't feel bad about today. You are a normal, ordinary parent. Just like the rest of us.

[DisappointedOne]

I think it's important he listens to me as an authority figure

Then it's very important that the messages you're giving are fair!