To think the alcohol unit levels....

[Windingstreamswithoutends]

...Are so low it means they have to be virtually ignored if you wish to drink alcohol.

For women it's 2-3 units in a day. Which is a glass of wine. Therefore if you have 2 glasses of wine with dinner, even if you are totally sober, you are technically binge drinking with all the stigma and worry that attaches itself to that.

The number of units decided upon as safe is also completely arbitrary and not based on any actual evidence.

These two things together surely mean they are likely to be ignored if you like a drink as they simply cannot be comfortably adhered to.

AIBU to think they should make them more workable to make them more effective?

Trills, why thank you! (That's the second compliment I've had tonight on MN! )

YABU

Although countries have different guidelines, they're only slightly different and they are all based on the same research.

The variance come from a different approach to what public health doctor think should be the limit, and what those who actually set the guidelines think the public (in their particular country/culture) will buy in to.

The rise in liver disease, and the fall in age of onset, seem to me to show that the UK population is still drinking too much.

It is generally the case that it is HARD to tell where the line lies between "healthy medium drinking" and "drinking too much", because:
1 - people lie
2 - you can't do a proper controlled study on people, they insist on free will

I almost certainly drink more than is healthy.
I don't pretend that my personal preference is important in the scheme of what is "healthy", I just accept that I am making my own choices.

If you want more than a glass of wine you have dependency issues? That's the kind of gubbins these guidelines inspire.

I love a good MN alcohol thread. They go just like the food ones. Don't drink, you'll DIE. Don't eat more than a scrap of food, you'll DIE FAT!

The trouble with non-drinkers in Europe is that they are very rare. In a European drinking culture the only people who don't drink are recovering alcoholics, those who don't drink for cultural reasons and those who drink because they have genetic reasons for not drinking (plus a few people who just don't drink but I don't know anyone in that category personally). Those groups are different from the general population in more ways than just not drinking and so any comparisons are meaningless.

So I'm not really buying the 'moderate drinkers are healthier than non-drinkers' even though I do drink myself. I think if we didn't have a drinking culture and more people didn't drink those stats would disappear.

How often is regular Hermione? Everyday, yes that's an issue. Weekly? When you do certain activities?

"Didn't some studies suggest that moderate consumption can be beneficial?"

I think you're right.

But moderate means 2-3 units no more than 5 days a week.

About the level that's characterised as unfeasibly low in the opening post.

I think it's unfeasibly low if health bodies want to try to use it to encourage people to stop binge drinking. People are likely to say, '2 drinks isn't a binge, but NHS says it is, what a load of crap I'm ignoring that'.

If they said for eg 6 glasses of wine once a week is OK, or 6 pints of beer once a week is OK, I think people might actually try to stick to it.

2 drinks and you are binging isn't going to change anybody's behaviour IMHO.

I've had half a bottle of wine over the last 3 nights.. This is more than normal though it's because my Christmas holidays have started!
I usually have about the recommended weekly limit, and I do worry about it being too much, but not enough to cut down. I exercise quite a bit and am a healthy weight and a non smoker, but my diet isn't great either, too much salt and not enough veg. It's a balance isn't it - for me, life would be too boring if I stuck to every guideline religiously.
I am planing on cutting back the alcohol though, in the new year!

Is that half a bottle over three nights or half a bottle a night for three nights?

Half a bottle over 3 nights - 375 ml over 3 nights is approx 125 ml a night. Less than a standard pub glass of wine, not a problem.

Don't think you've got to worry then!

"6 glasses of wine once a week is OK"

On a 12% wine and a 175ml glass, that's about 13 units. That's too high.

About 4 glasses (8.4 units), though still well above the c.6 units a day recommendation, might be more achievable if you're currently habituated to high amounts.

My point was that current limits allow you to have a small amount of alcohol every day. If you can't go a day without it, you have dependency issues IMO, and I'm just a person, not an addiction specialist.

So, if you drink every other day, or only at the weekends (and I appreciate I that then crosses over with the guidance on binge drinking) it should be possible to stay within the guidelines.

English wine portions are huuuuge!

A glass of wine to me is half filled, not filled to the brim.

Have two half glasses, you still feel like you are having two glasses of wine but don't go over the recommended limit. Problem solved :)

Look at the news today.
Alcohol related A&E admissions doubled over six years.
However you count the units, too much booze is being consumed.

Giddy
4) those who don't like the taste of alcohol
5) those who simply just don't drink, it's not part of their way of life (eg. My dad)
6) those that don't drink due to medicine they are taking.u

The vast majority of people that exceed the guidelines are not attending a&e because of it. They're not having any problems because of it. They aren't bothering anyone else because of it. They simply aren't.
We might be increasing our risks of any number of diseases, but that's our risk to take.

Yes, some people are drinking a lot too much, but the vast majority are drinking just a bit too much according to the guidelines, and on the whole are perfectly fine with it. And it really isn't anyone else's business.

No half a bottle a night for 3 nights!

What I was trying to say is daily guidelines don't really suit the British way of drinking.

They've been talking about changing them for years. This summer I actually sat in on a meeting of Clinical Chemists who were discussing it and it was very interesting.

The levels are set at a level that will guarantee that you won't get alcohol related health problems as a result. Someone above mentioned that different livers have different tolerances. And the levels are set so that the most vulnerable liver (in a healthy adult) won't be harmed. But most people don't have a liver like that. And people know from experience that plenty of people who drink above the guidelines regularly lead long, healthy lives. So they ignore them completely. It's kind of a Catch 22 though, as nobody knows who has the weak livers. So if you upped the limits to ones more appropriate to the majority of people, that would put a relatively small number of people at risk of damage because their metabolism couldn't deal with it. But it's generally accepted in the medical profession that the guidelines are often completely ignored, even by people who limit their drinking.

So,,as usual its playing down to the lowest common denominator and demonizing perfectly healthy drinkers? Because it isn't just about take it or leave it guidelines, is it? They are used by doctors, by insurance companies etc. People with perfectly healthy livers who drink what is for them a perfectly healthy amount are called binge drinkers and problem drinkers, when they are neither.
I don't want to be classed as a problem drinker because I have more than the absolute safe amount for a tiny frail livered lady. Its unscientific and its stupid. Yet as we can see from this thread alone people take these guidelines as gospel.

Most of what I've seen is on a weekly basis (14 units for women and 21 for men). That's pretty easy to stick to.

MuseumMum, we don't have weekly limits any more. They've moved over entirely to daily to discourage people from drinking it all in one session.