to be sceptical about man made climate change

[Brioche201]

.. to a layperson like myself the evidence does not seem robust (record antarctic ice caps) .Even if it were true 'the climate' is such a complicated thing affected by thousands of factors.Is it likely that changing just one or 2 of the factors that are within out control would make a difference (or even that the difference would be in the right direction)
Do you still believe in man made climate change or think it is mainly rooted in politics?

[OutsSelf]

Claig, how does suppressing population growth lead to suppressing development. I'm not a population expert but isn't it the case that increased development slows down population growth?

Can you also just clarify whether you believe there is a global conspiracy, basically against poor people breeding, and David Attenborough's in on it?

[VintageDresses]

Of course Baaa and as I said there are plenty of good reasons to control that but your statement doesn't prove the increase is related to climate change, if fact it's almost the opposite - climate change happened even when the population was much lower, so why would the increase in population necessarily be linked to climate change?

[Dipankrispaneven]

There are lots of climate sceptic sites which have scientific evidence that it is a fraud from scientists

There really aren't, you know. Yes, there are "climate sceptic sites" but they none of them contain the evidence you refer to, claig.

[claig]

' but isn't it the case that increased development slows down population growth?'

This is what we are told and birth rate does reduce under increased development because people are able to live better, but they then live longer whereas in severe underdevelopment, although there are more births, there are also more deaths.

'Can you also just clarify whether you believe there is a global conspiracy, basically against poor people breeding'

Yes, I believe that some elites want that and that Indira Gandhi's policies of forced sterilization were part of that.

David Attenborough is just one of teh great and the good, described as a "hero". I don't think he is part of it because he is not part of the elite, he is just a friend of the great and the good and a BBC "hero".

There is nothing secret about the hero's views on humanity and population, he is very open about it and is a well-lauded "hero"

"Humans are a 'plague on Earth': Sir David Attenborough warns that negative effects of population growth will come home to roost

TV naturalist Sir David Attenborough has warned that human beings have become a “plague on the Earth”.

The 86-year-old broadcaster said the negative effects of climate change and population growth would be seen in the next 50 years.
...
"It's not just climate change. It's sheer space, places to grow food for this enormous horde.

"Either we limit our population growth or the natural world will do it for us, and the natural world is doing it for us right now.

"We keep putting on programmes about famine in Ethiopia - that's what's happening. Too many people there. They can't support themselves - and it's not an inhuman thing to say. It's the case.

"Until humanity manages to sort itself out and get a co-ordinated view about the planet, it's going to get worse and worse."

www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/humans-are-a-plague-on-earth-sir-david-attenborough-warns-that-negative-effects-of-population-growth-8461570.html

[claig]

Here is an article on Obama's former science czar, John Holdren

"Obama's Science Czar Considered Forced Abortions, Sterilization as Population Growth Solutions

President Obama's "science czar," John Holdren, once floated the idea of forced abortions, "compulsory sterilization," and the creation of a "Planetary Regime" that would oversee human population levels and control all natural resources as a means of protecting the planet -- controversial ideas his critics say should have been brought up in his Senate confirmation hearings.
...
But many of Holdren's radical ideas on population control were not brought up at his confirmation hearings; it appears that the senators who scrutinized him had no knowledge of the contents of a textbook he co-authored in 1977, "Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment," a copy of which was obtained by FOXNews.com.

The 1,000-page course book, which was co-written with environmental activists Paul and Anne Ehrlich, discusses and in one passage seems to advocate totalitarian measures to curb population growth, which it says could cause an environmental catastrophe.

The three authors summarize their guiding principle in a single sentence: "To provide a high quality of life for all, there must be fewer people."

www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/21/obamas-science-czar-considered-forced-abortions-sterilization-population-growth.html

And there is much, much more in that book.

[freespiritsbadattitude]

Loads of eminent scientists disagree with you. Nigel Lawson, Donald Trump, Sarah Palin.

Lol. Am guessing that was a joke!

Yes climate change has always happened. But there is much data to suggest that THIS climate change is our own doing.

Whether you "believe" in it or not, doesn't matter. The point is, data overwhelmingly suggests it's happening. To say "I don't believe it" and then mention the Antartctic ice show you actually know very little about the science of climate change to begin with.

[freespiritsbadattitude]

And also, it's impossible to have this conversation on MN because claig dominates the thread with links to Fox News, the DM and references to Trump and Nigel Farage. It gets very boring.

[claig]

'that would oversee human population levels and control all natural resources as a means of protecting the planet'

I guess that some people driving a future COP might want that to be legally binding and might have some all-night sessions when the deadline had apassed without any coffee or biscuits available to get some of the puppets to sign up to it.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

What would anyone gain from pretending this was true, if it was not?

A hell of a lot of funding and jobs for a start ... having secured a nice cushy number in the massive climate change industry it's hardly in their interests to tell us the evidence is lacking, is it?

University of East Anglia, anyone??

[claig]

freespiritsbadattitude , I said I disagree with it and someone asked me why and asked me if I thought there was a conspiracy to stop poor people breeding and I answered what I know about it from Fox and elsewhere.

'I totally agree with him here. If there was another species that had caused as much destruction and havock as humans we would have wiped them out long ago.'

So do lots of top people agree with it. Everyone is entitled to believe in what they like.

[freespiritsbadattitude]

Everyone is entitled to believe in what they like

Of course. But, just like saying "I'm entitled to my opinion" it's not actually a substitute for facts. My 3-yo believes in fairies, for example.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Opinions are like arseholes, everyone's got one.

[JassyRadlett]

Claig, I'd have thought you'd want money poured into renewables R&d to continue to drive down the price of eg solar to abs beyond grid parity and into batteries, so that people aren't relying on finite resources controlled by elites?

Only Monty Burns has ever had much luck trying to control access to the sun....

[claig]

But there are lots of people who don't believe in man-made climate change including the potential future President of the United States and the former Prime Minister of Australia, who called it "crap", and the former Prime Minister of Spain etc as well as a whole load of scientists, including the PhD brother of the leader of the Labour Party.

One day, I think us sceptics will be proved right when the politics changes and when Trump scraps the whole game and puppets across the world breathe a sigh of relief as the great and the good's boot has been lifted from their backs by Donald J Trump.

[claig]

'Claig, I'd have thought you'd want money poured into renewables R&d to continue to drive down the price of eg solar to abs beyond grid parity and into batteries, so that people aren't relying on finite resources controlled by elites? '

Yes I agree with that and I agree with the billionaires latest plan to get Bill Gates and all of the team to start investing into scientific research to make renewable energy cheaper and to give us good technology that allows the great people of the world to use cheap energy to develop and produce. That is a good idea and I agree with that.

[claig]

I am all for Musk, the former Paypal founder's, Tesla battery stuff. I hope it works, I hope it is cheap, I hope the whole world gets it in every village on earth so that people don't have to pay for power to rip-off energy companies whose board members are mates with the political class and who jack our prices up every year. Give us free renewable energy in our homes after paying a one-off cost if it works, great.

[JassyRadlett]

Grand. Something we (and climate scientists) can agree on!

[claig]

Yes, we agree on that, but not the man-made bit.

[bakingaddict]

I doubt we will fuck up the planet that to me sounds like a bit of arrogance on our part we will just create conditions incompatible for our own survival. Don't forgot the planet survived the meteor crash that may have precipitated the extinction of the dinosaurs. I remember reading that 99% of all species become extinct so all we may do is hasten our own demise but earth will still exist without us

[MadeMan]

I'm sceptical about most things 'they' go about these days.

[JassyRadlett]

Yes, we agree on that, but not the man-made bit.

Yes, I've gathered that.

I always think it's a pity that we have so few politicians who are scientists, and find it instructive to look at the views of those who are/were.

I'm also interested that the consensus on climate science is led by scientists alongside others, while the sceptics are led overwhelmingly by politicians.

[Puffpastry1]

Its a load of codswollop in my eyes.

Mother nature will do what it does regardless.