Man at work keeps touching me

[SourceofInformation]

I honestly don't know if I'm being unreasonable to be slightly annoyed or if it's him.

I'm new in a small infant school. He's the only male on the staff, the caretaker, 55yo and been there since he was 18.

I'm not his boss but I am in a position to have some authority over him.

My predecessor had a history of really not getting on with him and my boss warned me in advance that he needs careful handling (which seems to be common with school caretakers!)

Anyway, so far, we've been getting on OK and he's been doing things for me that he previously refused to do or made a big fuss about

However, whenever I thank him for something, or if we've had a conversation which he thinks might have upset me (he hasn't so far, but it seems my predecessor was easily upset) he comes and squeezes my shoulder or (today) rubs my back.

There's nothing aggressive or sexual about it and he does it to others too, but it does feel a bit patronising and I don't like it!

AIBU? If not, what can I do? if I ask him to stop he is going to take offence, he's not going anywhere and I do need him to do his job for me, at the same time as having no authority to "manage" him.

[LurcioAgain]

Yonks ago when I was in this situation (colleague and I equal rungs of workplace ladder, but big age difference - me 20s him 40s) I went for the direct approach: "I'm just not a touchy feely person, sorry, I'd appreciate some personal space" and the guy was fine about it (in part because I think my instinctive take on him was right - he wasn't a sleazeball, he just was more tpuchy feely than me).

In this situation I think I would go for the breezy "whoah personal spaxw" approach or fistbump, but delivered with as cheesy a fake smile as you can mustr.

[LuluJakey1]

We had one like this. He had not been there that long but did exactly those things to female staff. At first we put it down to overly friendliness and his age - he was elderly- but he was doing it to just females and also to teenage girls. sOme of the young staff were very uncomfortable. Our HR person spoke to him very directly about inappropriate professional behaviours and he was told if he did it again he would receive a formal warning and it would end up in a disciplinary. He did and it did. He was put on train g and monitored.

It stopped but he left still in the huff, feeling badly done to a few months later

[BoskyCat]

Yes staff could be gay, and if you got the sense that someone was touching you for their own gratification and it made you uncomfortable, even if they were the same sex, that would need addressing too.

However it's not right to suggest that just because women at work hug each other, a man has the right to come in and touch them uninvited. It's possible he could develop a mutual huggy relationship with them, or some of them, as presumably their have developed between women. But them hugging does not make it his right to touch them or he'll feel "left out".

Anyone feeling left out is less important than people's right not to be pawed.

[ilovesooty]

"I'm just not a touchy feely person, sorry, I'd appreciate some personal space"

I'd go with that.

If you don't like being hugged people shouldn't hug you.

[Icouldbesogoodforyou]

Ta1 - I'm not making assumptions about people in non - career jobs. I would think it unusual for ANYONE to be in the same job from their late teens till in their 50s.

If it was a well - paid, fulfilling position I would perhaps think the person was capitalising on a good thing and perhaps thought 'better the devil you know' but I'd still think it a little unusual because people usually people don't stay in one job with no day to day variation (like a nurse or teacher may experience for example) for almost 40 years.

[Ta1kinPeace]

I would think it unusual for ANYONE to be in the same job from their late teens till in their 50s.
ROTFLMAOPMPL

I know of dozens and dozens and dozens
but then my kids attend comp schools so I eat "normal" parents

[NuffSaidSam]

'so I eat "normal" parents'

Well, you mustn't! . Stop it immediately.

[SourceofInformation]

He started as a cleaner at 18 and frankly has been over promoted to his current role. The way he does it, it's a nice cushy number with a house thrown in. I can't see him getting a better job elsewhere.

He is treated as on of the family by the long serving lsas, yes. Tbh, I wouldn't be entirely comfortable to be hugged by them either, but I'm not yet part of the family.

Imo, there's quite a bit of behaviour among the support staff that's not entirely professional imo, but it's a culture I'm not used to and there's no doubt it's created a happy working environment, hence all the long serving staff. My predessor retired after 23 years.

[Didactylos]

Ive had a colleague like this, and agree with some of the above - Its an anger/territorial/dominance thing

I was fairly new to the job and he was senior in his role, so I had come into his space but was promoted/had authority over him -and am younger. shorter and female.
the first time we worked together he spent the day patronising me,boasting of his achivements and then pulled me up about a minor issue - the wording of an instruction, in front of our whole team, as it hadn't been done the way he liked it
I replied something along the lines of 'that's why I explained x - and nobody else had a problem following a simple direct instruction: politely but firmly, there was nothing for me to apologise about, the issue was a minor difference in style and made no material difference.

other team members gasped a bit, there was a bit of sniggering and some smiles. I hadn't really intended to pull him up in front of the team that but couldn't really take a ticking off/apologise/bow to his perceived authority over something so trivial, as it would have very much undermined my position and the issue was utterly ridiculous

After that he started punching my arm in a 'jokey/matey' way whenever he saw me, or passed me in the corridor. And I mean, punched, there was very little supressed, there was definitely some temper and force involved. First time I was surprised, as we are not jokey/matey and I hadn't really grasped how much I had got to him by asserting myself on that first encounter. Second time I asked him politely and assertively to stop, I did not like to be greeted in such a way. Third time I was alone, again asked him to stop.

On the forth occasion he did it in front of a witness and I was expecting the 'punch' so grabbed his fist before it made contact and in complete cold rage hissed in his face 'Do you have an impulse control problem or are you ridiculously stupid? I have told you to stop touching me' which probably wasn't the best choice of words but he backed down, and now avoids me like the plague. I still occasionally have to work with him, but oddly enough a lot of his team members seem to get on well with me

[BoldFox]

Wow. You did everything politely first, and your requests were never unreasonable. He sounds a nightmare.

[LurcioAgain]

Didactylos - you are now my mumsnet hero (embarrassing but npn-stalky emoji).

[TheSpottedZebra]

Whether other members of staff like more touching is besides the point surely?
If someone - anyone - is touching you in a way that you don't want, they ought to stop.

I would make it clear by backing off, raising eyebrows etc, that I didn't want to be touched. If needed to, I'd then spell it out -eg please don't touch me like that ever again, I don't like it (but not using the word sorry).

If it continued, I'd escalate it.

Talk of his career, any possible asd, the team behaviour is all by the by.

[Chottie]

SofInfo

I would get this sorted out now, right from the start. I would not want to touched in anyway at work either. It doesn't matter how long he has been at the school, it's still inappropriate behaviour.....

Respect Dida :)

[Houseofmirth66]

Sounds like it's about power rather than sex - although clearly those things can be linked. Touching someone without their permission is a very controlling and overbearing thing to do. I would tell him not to do it. And make sure you don't add in an apologetic reason like 'it makes me feel uncomfortable'. If you have to give a reason say it's inappropriate - which makes it clear that it's his action, and not your reaction, which is at fault.

[Didactylos]

it was really odd though, it took me a lot of analysis to decide how to respond, hence the 4 occasions where he tried the behaviour: but I quite honestly on the first 2 episodes didn't know what he was playing at; it could have been innocent/horseplay/misinterpreted except of course it wasn't. I am not a shrinking violet, my job often demands me to step up and take control of critical situations, yet I was finding myself questioning my reactions and there was an awful lot of ' spirit of the staircase' stuff before I came up with my last response and decided to show a bit of anger. So the bugger got to me as he meant to and occupied way too much of my headspace for way too long.... and not heroic in any way, but now I stand up for myself quicker.

OP, don't feel you have to be nice and conciliatory. He is imposing on you, you can tell him to stop and don't have to be nice /apologetic about it

[beardsrock]

Respect, Didactylos.

[Theycallmemellowjello]

I think that telling him politely but firmly that you don't want him to touch you is probably the best way. "Please don't do that." "I'd prefer if you didn't touch me." Coupled with a step backwards. Just say it like it's perfectly normal (it is) - as if you were asking him to pass you something. Being nice about it is probably best for maintaining a good working relationship. If he doesn't stop after this then by all means be a bit forthright or involve management, but as a first step I'd give him the chance to mend his own ways.

Ta1king I hope you're joking - it is not part of anyone's job that they have to allow themselves to be hugged and touched, and it is not 'discrimination' to choose who you want to be touched by.

[TheWitchsCat]

Yes, what TheSpottedZebra said. It doesn't matter if it's a "normal" thing for that work place (in some workplaces sexist/racist jokes are the norm, you're still allowed to conplain). If someone touches you and you don't like it that is a valid way to feel and you have a right to tell them to stop. If he doesn't then speak to the head. Also, him thanking you for things while reminding you you're not his boss??! Wow.