TAX ON TALL KIDS

[Momo123]

AIBU- its time for kitting kids out with new clobber for new school year! My DS is 14 years old so he's on permanent growth spurt measuring 5'10" tall of slim build. He has autism & other learning disabilities therefore goes to a special school. I like him to have logoed school uniform as he does does lots of life skilled based learning which means he's out & about a lot with school & heaven forbid If ever he was to become separated from his group in a crowd he he will be easily identified by his school logo! So I just ordered his school uniform from famous school shop w/s - total cost of his uniform came to approx £79 approx but as I've had to order adult sizes & bill went up to£95 with £15 VAT! He's still 14yrs old so still a child and think it's unfair that we have to pay more for uniform:( We can't help his genetic growth! Does anyone else feel the same way?

[ShakesBootyFlabWobbles]

There is no way whatsoever that any political party in the UK can recast the sizing dimensions for children's clothes for vat zero rating beyond the current maximum dimensions in legislation. This would be ultra vires EC law I.e. Acting unlawfully.

When the uk joined what is now the eu, it had to 'cast in stone' any concessions from normal eu law at that time. The zero rating for smaller children's clothes at the dimensions agreed were granted a concession. Don't forget, in 1973, the school leaving age had only very recently gone up from 15 to 16.

To change the vat rules in the eu takes the agreement of 28 countries. Most countries charge vat on children's clothes so there will be zero chance of the entire eu agreeing to this.

Only Ireland has this zero rate to age 10, and Luxembourg charges 3%. All the other counties charge the standard rate on children's clothing of between 18 to 27%.

People could campaign in the U.K. for logo school clothes beyond the zero rate dimensions to be reduced to 5% Vat. There is no legal way that larger school othes can be vat free. None.

It is annoying but that's the law.

[Lurkedforever1]

shakes yes, but even for those of us with kids in the top of the tall range, making longer clothes with in the parameters would still offer more years in kids clothes. Let alone average tall and slim. Dds legs are 33" at 11, which I can understand not being catered to. But an age 13 top would fit correctly if they weren't all made as wide as they are long iyswim.

wtf yes ditto for me in tall ranges. And bras. And even dds bras. I mean when it's exactly the same item on the same rail, eg m&s don't charge more for the same pjs in size 16 as size 8, yet age 13 in the same pjs as age 7 they do.

[WankerDeAsalWipe]

other cost of having tall kids is holidays, we've has to book for 4 adults since age 10 as Dss don't fit in the "child" beds that are provided.

[Auntpetunia2015]

It drives me nuts find me an adult that wants a book bag!! But yet they have VAT on them, same as logos jumpers and blazers why does it matter what size they are they are obviously for school kids.

[DustBunnyFarmer]

Not able to pass stuff on since about age 3 as they basically take the same size, DS2 being taller at the same age than DS1 and also slightly broader built.

Same here.

[DustBunnyFarmer]

Given that the government has extended schooling (or equivalent vocational training) post-16, effectively raising the school leaving age to 18, I think it's even more important this is reviewed.

[WankerDeAsalWipe]

I understand the reasons now why it can't be done, but it does still annoy me. Mine are now just turned 15 and just turned 14, they are nearly 6 2 and 6 foot tall and obviously still growing. It costs a fortune to ensure that they are clothed and shod. Size 42 long blazers and 34/34 trousers. Size 11 feet. Friends are able to get 2 or 3 years from clothes and at least a year from shoes whereas mine have needed a complete new wardrobe every summer and winter. Not able to pass stuff on since about age 3 as they basically take the same size, DS2 being taller at the same age than DS1 and also slightly broader built. I appreciate that they can't do anything with the VAT, but it is costly and frustrating.

[Cluesue]

My Dd is 9 and already in 15/16 and small adult clothes

[wtfisgoingonhere]

Agree with all logo'd school uniform should not be vatable however I work with tax and they have no end of stupid/illogical rules

Re the point made above though:
"Not buying the more material angle either, adult sizes aren't priced like that."

Whilst I am vertically challenged with small feet, I also have disproportionately large bazongas.

I DO have to pay more for my DD+ range bras than the equivalent 'regular size' range.
(Despite for example a 30F using less material than a 38A)

[Bunbaker]

It's ludicrous. Surely the clue is in the words school uniform therefore clearly not for adults. Children of all shapes and sizes under the age of 17 will still be at school so their uniforms should be tax exempt.

[scaevola]

The actual tax notice is here:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-714-zero-rating-young-childrens-clothing-and-footwear/vat-notice-714-zero-rating-young-childrens-clothing-and-footwear

(Section 6 for uniforms)

Shakes is right about how hard it is to change VAT definitions and rates.

But making logo-ed school-specific items minimum rate when over exempt size would be possible.

[DustBunnyFarmer]

ShakesBooty thank you for your knowledgeable posts. It does help to know the legislation. My only suggestion would be to ask for a review on the dimensions covered by zero rating, but based on population data about height/weight distribution of children, as I'd put money on the average having changed in the last 40 years. If that review has to refer to EU data, so much the better. There are a lot of tall north Europeans - you only have to look at a lot of European ladies shoe brands, which go up to a 43 or 44.

[jellyjiggles]

My ds is 7 and already in age 11 clothes size 4 shoe. Clothing for him has cost us a fortune because he's needed twice as much to keep up with his height.

I'm fully expecting to have to buy men's clothes for him before he's out of Junior School.

[NaughtToThreeSadOnions]

Why do they sell adult size school uniform ?

Are you actually reading this thread unhappy because surely it proves there's a need for adult size school uniforms!
Even without the obesity issue children are getting taller! And what about the schools with uniformed 6th forms!

Sorry such a weird question when so many parents are going yes it's the same with my child, and you still ask! The same reason they make age 3 uniforms at the other end of the school some children might be extra small!

[Solo]

Oh you most certainly aren't being unreasonable! I've said it for years now! at 13, my Ds was around 6'2" tall. My Dd is now 8 and is in age 13-15 clothing and some ladies size 6. She's tall, not broad.
It gets my goat OP.
I too have imagined being able to claim back the tax on their clothing!!!

[ShakesBootyFlabWobbles]

And by branded, I mean 'with a school logo' not a retail brand.

gives up and goes to bed

[ShakesBootyFlabWobbles]

[ShakesBootyFlabWobbles]

The maximum measurements for children's clothing to qualify for 0% VAT are set down in UK tax legislation.

Sorry, that needed to be clearer. Tis very late [embarrassed]

[ShakesBootyFlabWobbles]

The maximum measurements for children's clothing are set down in UK tax legislation. By all means have longer length sizes for tall children, but they will be subject to 20% vat not 0% vat if they fall outwith the maximum measurements.
I'm not saying I'm thrilled about that, but no government has the power to extend the zero rate, unless we leave the EU.

But that's a whole other thread.

[Lurkedforever1]

They wouldn't need to exempt it under vat rules, just make age sizes in different lengths.

[Lurkedforever1]

It shouldn't be luck of the draw though. I'm tall, dds father was tall, not suprising dd is. As well as all uniform being wide fitting, they also do it extra wide fits. No good reason tall kids clothes should cost more. Not buying the more material angle either, adult sizes aren't priced like that.

[ShakesBootyFlabWobbles]

Dull tax rules:

It cannot be made exempt unless the European Union agrees it - that's never going to happen. Most EU countries charge Vat on children's clothes and are happy to do this.

The UK cannot bring any larger clothing into the zero rate vat rules. The current rules were agreed in 1973 when UK joined what is now the EU, and the UK cannot extend these rules, only restrict them if they choose to.

If you want to start lobbying, the only possible chance of success you could have would be to campaign to bring vat down to 5% on branded larger size school uniform. Unbranded shirts, skirts, trousers and shoes wouldn't be included as would be open to widespread abuse. However, - and it is a possibility - this type of campaign could end up with the government in power making ALL branded uniform 5% vat to avoid confusion for the industry, meaning the current zero rate on smaller sized branded school uniform is abandoned.

On balance, I think the current system, despite its flaws, is the least worst option so I am going to say with a heavy heart, yabu.

And for the record, yes, I am an absolute hoot at dinner parties

[manicinsomniac]

It's luck of the draw.

My daughters may well never grow out of children's clothes and shoes. I haven't. (not that I buy them all the time obviously, but sometimes I do.)

That's a plus point. But there are plenty of bad things about being tiny too.

[DustBunnyFarmer]

My Mum used to grumble about this with my school shoes and my hobbit feet. Seems my sons are similarly inclined. I just forked out nearly £100 on school shoes - in another year or so, it will be that +20% and I reckon they'll both be in specialist shoe sizes around puberty. about having to rein in my own shoe budget.

[balletgirlmum]

I've got the opposite problem. I'm having to have a blazer & trousers specially made to measure for ds who starts Year 7 in September but wears age 7-8 clothes.