to be in tears about HMRC?

[commuterville]

Long story short, last year I received a penalty letter. I was really worried, called up about it, spoke to a couple of people who reassured me, said I didn't owe anything and told me what I needed to do re self assessment (have been put onto that due to being a higher rate taxpayer and in receipt of CB). So 2 people telling me I didn't owe anything was good enough for me. Self assessment filed, all ok. Apparently.

Now I've had correspondence saying I owe a 4 figure sum. I spent an hour on the phone, most of it on hold, to query it only to be told I have to appeal, which will take up to 4 months and I'll be charged interest in the meantime as well.

I'm lucky (haha) in that I can pay it but it will completely wipe out money I'd put aside for my DC and a holiday. Have been crying in the loos about it. This is just the latest shitty thing to happen this year - never ending list of jobs to do in my house, teen DC being 'challenging', my bf got diagnosed with cancer (but is clear for now thankfully), my job is a nightmare and I've recently found out I'm being paid £10k or more less than my workshy colleague (who works from home all the time, which I'm not allowed to). Frankly this feels like the last straw.

[Fauxlivia]

Don't just accept that you owe this. HMRC couldn't find their own arse with both hands, so you probably don't.

My advice is to always get everything confirmed in writing. Never just accept what they say on the phone. Different departments will tell you any old bollocks different things. Write letters and get them sent recorded delivery.

[Bakeoffcake]

Oh I hope you get it sorted. I'm sure if you follow the advice on here, you will be ok. They can't tell you one thing on the phone then fine you because you followed their advice

If you don't get any joy I'd also go to citizens advice or you could threaten WatchDog, Or Radio 4s- You and Yours or The Money Programme are very good at helping people.

If I were you, (and some people might disagree) I'd go on holiday and spend the money. If they do end up charging you, which I'm sure they won't, they will have to take it in instalments.

[kungfupannda]

HMRC are frighteningly incompetent.

DP has been doing a tax return for the last few years. One year he had almost no tax to pay because of allowable deductions and a rebate - it came to 7p. He paid it, and obviously had a record of it being paid.
They then sent a demand for 7p - and a fine for not filing his return and not paying the 7p owed.

He obviously contacted them and pointed out that
a) he had a record of payment, and
b) if he'd never filed the return, how did they know he owed them 7p?!

They agreed with this and said they'd wiped the fines.

Then another pair of fines arrived - for more this time.

He contacted them again, and this time they said they had no record of payment and he definitely hadn't filed his return. When he again asked how they'd reached the 7p calculation, they said it was from his tax return. The one he hadn't filed. They managed to simultaneously accept that he had filed his return for purposes of pointing out that he owed them 7p and they were going to fine him for not paying it, and deny that he'd filed his return for the purposes of fining him for that

He eventually got them to remove the fines on the condition that he payed the 7p again. He paid it. They tried to fine him a third time.

He then started sending sarcastic letters. One of them had 7p in coppers taped inside the envelope. They eventually graciously agreed to waive the fines 'just this once.'

It was epic

[MrsSchadenfreude]

You have my sympathies, OP, they are indeed a nightmare. I had four tax codes last year (two of which were in the last two months of the financial year), I had a rebate, and then a demand for exactly the same amount, then another rebate, and then a demand for a bit more money. They now assure me that it is "all sorted", but I'm not entirely convinced...

[OnlyLovers]

I'd write to one of the money pages in the papers. The Guardian are good.

And also write to their complaints department. Tell them what you've told us about being told twice you didn't owe anything etc.

Good luck.

[Marynary]

mary they scrapped that around 2008, I beleive.

Oh, that explains it (I last did a return in about 2008).

[19lottie82]

I've had plenty of dealings with HMRC before, and they are a total nightmare. You just get passed between different people in different offices and get told totally different things.

You need to write to their COMPLAINTS department and put everything in writing about how you've been told different things and you're very stressed out and don't understand what's going on, due to not being able to get any consistent and clear info, despite your many attempts.

[ClashCityRocker]

mary they scrapped that around 2008, I beleive.

And if a tax return is issued, it has to be filled in or penalties will apply. You can ring them and try to get them to remove the requirement to file a return. Often it's the case that they don't know if you owe money or not until you have filled in a return.

OP, if you are in receipt of child benefit but earn less than 50k, you shouldn't be required to fill in a tax return. This will add strength to your argument.

In your letter, use the words 'reasonable excuse'', 'causing distress' and 'official complaint'. This might hurry things up a bit. You have certainly got a reasonable excuse and I would be very surprised if the penalty was left to stand.

The interest is 3% per annum, so even if you left it for a year you would be looking at around £30 - £40 - which is probably not worth not being able to go on holiday for.

[pudcat]

I would write to the guy at Money Mail in the Daily Mail or Mail on Sunday. Tony Hetherington. e is very good at sorting problems like these out.

[Marynary]

I'm confused. If you don't owe any money then why do you need to fill in a tax return?

[commuterville]

Apparently they can now fine you thousands even if you owe nothing.

Or in my case, tell you there won't be a fine and not to worry about the letter, and then fine you anyway.

[Marynary]

It has changed then. I was definitely told (a few years ago) that I wouldn't be fined for a late return if I didn't owe anything.

[MissBattleaxe]

No, even if its a nil return you can get fined for filing it late.

[Marynary]

I don't owe a penny in tax. In fact in 12/13 I got a rebate. Which they've kindly deducted from what I owe

I thought that if you didn't owe any tax then you don't receive a fine even if your tax return is late.

[commuterville]

Thanks for all the advice. I've not slept all night that's how worried and upset it's made me.

To the posters having a pop, yes maybe I do owe it. But a) I was very clearly told over 6 months ago I owed nothing and relying on that I didn't pay anything. Also b) how is it fair to fine someone a 4 figure sum, when I didn't even owe any tax?

As for the I dont need the money, hafuckingha. Like I said, in the year in question I didn't owe any tax, in fact I'd overpaid. I'm a single parent and haven't had a holiday since 2011. So I was quite looking forward to one, not spending all that money on HMRC penalties and interest.

[littlefrenchonion]

I had this - bill for around £1000 arrived the week before my wedding. I cried my eyes out.

In the end I sent a long letter detailing why I shouldn't have to pay (HMRC advisor had told me a year ago over telephone that I had closed my 'account' with them and didn't need to take any further action. I hadn't, she just cancelled my NI). They revoked all but £100.

Don't bother phoning them, write. Take copies of everything so you can refer back if needed.

Good luck.

[Supersoft]

I'm sure you can phone up the repayments line and agree to pay £5 a month or whatever. To be honest I don't have much sympathy if by paying the money back it means no holiday. This benefit shouldn't be used to afford such luxuries, it should be helpful to those who need it to pay basic bills.

[sleepsoftly]

Google Tax Aid uk
Staffed by uk tax professionals on a voluntary basis who know exactly what to do. There to help in this type of situation.

[Kewcumber]

Thats a peculiar post GinandJag anyone is entitled to appeal a penalty ruling, it isn't as simple as "you either owe it or you don't"

[GinandJag]

You either owe it or you don't. Are we supposed to sympathise if you do owe?

Chances are you can have it incorporated into your new tax code.

[Gabilan]

Or look through your own phone bill for the massively long call where you were on hold for effing ages. And their hold music could almost have been deliberately composed to make you want to put the phone down/ scratch your own ear off.

[Allstoppedup]

Legally you can submit a subject access request under the Data Protection Act which will give you all of the notes/details they have on file for you. This would generally include any notes a handler would have left on their systems after speaking to you. Sometimes there will be a charge for this (about £10) but it will show a summary of any conversation as documented by a call handler. Every customer advisory role I've had has included leaving call notes as a basic requirement for quality control and I would think that HMRC would have the same. They have confirmed they HAVE information on their system, doing this would allow you to view it all.

If you Google Subject Access Request you will find more information. It's worth looking at to back up your side of the story/to establish whether you have an argument against them.

Good luck.

[ShakesBootyFlabWobbles]

I've prepared lots of appeals to HMRC - not the same department your are dealing with - and it is not a foregone conclusion they will fail. However, if you don't appeal, HMRC are not going to just wipe off the penalties either.

As people have said, the late return penalties are automatically generated by software, not thought about by humans. You have reasons for an appeal, so have a go.

[Gabilan]

I've worked in an environment that records calls. Date and time is good but also if you made a record of the number you called from, you can often search a system on that. Of course, unless they're really interested in training staff who are giving out incorrect information they might not want to find it, but if they used a similar to ours, they should be able to!

[Kewcumber]

I agree with Elmer you need to focus on the advice you were given by HMRC on the phone that a SA return would not be necessary. Hopefully you have made a note of the date of the call.