to think the Grammar school system is flawed and unfair even though I am a product of one?....

[selly24]

Would love to hear your thoughts.....

[amothersplaceisinthewrong]

The most unfair thing about grammar schools in many cases are the second rate sec mods that exist for those that do not pass the 11plus.

[Fluffcake]

Szeli, I agree that kids shouldn't need extensive tutoring but they do need some help to make sure they have covered everything and practice exam technique.

[Mushypeasandchipstogo]

Don't get me started! I am the product of a Grammar School education. Wasn't it Michael Parkinson who said, " My Grammar School did for me what mixamatosis did for rabbits. " Totally agree with him. Unfortunately we have Grammar schools here and the whole system is corrupt and flawed.

[TeenAndTween]

I'm delighted to live in an all-comp area. The top kids come out with 10+ A*/A, the real strugglers come out with qualifications in Beauty / Construction plus hopefully some level of English and maths too. No stressing kids in y4/5. No tutoring for 11+ so mc parents of slightly above average kids can beat poorer but brighter kids to the grammar.

Comps of now need not be the same as comps of the past regarding bullying for being bright.
Grammars of now are not the tool for social mobility they were in the past.

[hiddenhome]

I'd have loved to have gone to a grammar school. When I went to comp, you were bullied if you were capable of stringing a sentence together

[PtolemysNeedle]

It can also be what parents think if they have got a child at a grammar school Bert.

[code]

Same here hidden. The only way to get into a good school round these parts is to be a churchgoer for 7 years or pay for your education. The comps move between satisfactory and need improving every ofsted. No grammars in this borough. I passed my 11+ and in retrospect would have (to quote Bert from Adrain Mole) "given my right ball" to attend a grammar.

[Szeli]

Round here the Catholic schools are the rough ones!

[hiddenhome]

I live in the NE and we don't even have grammar schools up here. People here have to resort to pretending to be Catholic in order to get their little darlings into a decent school

[BertrandRussell]

"The most unfair thing about grammar schools is that there's not enough of them to give a place at one to every child that wants one and is capable of thriving in one."

Yep. That's what parents who have children they think would get into a grammar school think!

[PtolemysNeedle]

The most unfair thing about grammar schools is that there's not enough of them to give a place at one to every child that wants one and is capable of thriving in one.

[DoctorDonnaNoble]

The grammar schools I've worked actually have good value added as well as raw scores. As all schools try to.

[Szeli]

Perhaps our local schools identify as comps as the grammar can't take that many kids.

When I went 112 a year

We didn't learn anything except how to pass exams. I wouldn't be keen on any daughters going there but the boys school at least seemed to churn out well read young men so I'd consider it if ds fancied it.

Don't agree with tutoring, you should be able to pass the test on your own merit or not go

[Szeli]

Well the options round here are grammar, comp or faith

[BertrandRussell]

Formidable- so right.

OP- feel free to search previous threads - you will find that everything on this subject has been covered. Repeatedly.

[formidable]

Im fucking fed up of OPs who cannot be arsed to formulate their thoughts into a coherent and interesting OP.

Fucking poor.

[MayPolist]

What is a non Grammar if not a comp?

A comp or comprehensive means the full ability range.In a grammar school area the alternative is not a comprehensive because it does not have the full ability spectrum.

[Szeli]

What is a non Grammar if not a comp?

[Fluffcake]

I went to a grammar as did one of my sisters and my brother. None of us did particularly well academically - I was a classic underachiever and would have probably done better at the local comp where I would have been in the top half of the class instead of the bottom. But we have all done well for ourselves since leaving school.

I wouldn't stand a chance of getting in today.

Both my dcs are at grammars. They are much cleverer than me and doing well. DS was adamant that he didn't want to go to the local comp as he struggled with the low level disruption at primary and I think he was worried he may have been picked on.
DD wanted to follow her brother. She is cleverer but lazier!

[AlfalfaMale]

Picking up on Jasmine's reductionist theme, how about starting from "schooling is flawed" and working up from there? :/

[BrilliantDayForTheRace]

Well given that the cohort of my DSs grammar is almost entirely Indian / Sikh obviously lots of white British parents agree with you.

The catchment is huge. And not mostly Indian / Sikh

I think it's a pity that the cohort isn't more mixed and more representative

[LeChien]

Round here the majority of dc in the Grammar school have been trained to pass the 11+
Once in school, many are tutored outside school hours to keep up with the work.
I often think it's unfair on the children as they are pushed to reach a potential that is not natural to them, and wonder what the result will be in terms of being happy in adulthood.

[Cantbelievethisishappening]

I firmly believe bright children are as much SEN as the other end of the spectrum and should have suitable educational facilities available to them to cater to their needs

But intense hot housing for the 11+ does little to identify the naturally bright children although I believe grammar schools are now addressing this.

[Malenky]

I'm a "product" of one too and while I think it was a terrible experience for me, some people thrived. The only reason it was terrible for me was because I am from a disadvantaged and often mocked area and consequently not even close to rich whereas everyone else was at least middle middle class, so I was different. Despite that I'm glad I got the chance to go to a really good school and improve my prospects- others at my grammar would have been able to pay for a private education had they not passed the 11 plus but I would have had to go to the comprehensive my friends went to, which I would have really enjoyed but wasn't a very good school.