Whooping cough jab

[karatekimmi]

Please be gentle with me, but I cant work out whether I am being a bit of a drama llama.

I'm not interested in whether you should or shouldn't have injections. It is a personal choice.

I declined a flu jab whilst pregnant, my midwife is aware of this

I am 30 weeks pregnant and I was told by my midwife that I should have my whooping cough jab. For no real logical reason I am happy to have a whooping cough jab, but not a flu jab.

I went to my doctors surgery where the nurse asked if I knew why I was having the whooping cough injection ( to increase my immunity to pass it on to my baby when its first born) and she injected me. Afterwards she said I was also covered for diphtheria, polio and tetnus. I didn't say much at the time, but I am a bit annoyed that they assumed consent for the jab, and the more I think about it, the more angry I get. I feel like I want to complain about this.

What do you think?

[willbillycome]

It may be more appropriate for the leaflet to give the information that it is a 4in1 vaccination, but it does give you your options for finding out more which are very easily accessible. If these things bother you then you should have asked about it/researched it before giving your consent

[MishMooshAndMogwai]

Bair my arm had a massive lump and was sore for a good week after and so hot too!

[Bair]

I had mine today, and my arm is sore as buggery!

Nurse was brilliant, even though I'd booked the app myself she checked I knew what I was having, the benefits, and that I knew it was a 4 in 1. She then went over potential side effects. She also asked if I had any questions before even opening the packet. I had to wait around for a bit after to check I wasn't suffering from the side effects.

Very pleased with my local surgery. I am very pro vaccine but I feel more looked after knowing that my surgery takes informed consent seriously.

[NinkyNonkers]

Do independent research before agreeing to anything! You can't have everything handed to you on a plate, if you are vaccine conscious/nervous why not look into them?

[WhetherOrNot]

its just it felt underhand

NHS, Doctors and Nurses can't do right for doing wrong these days, it seems.

[Penguinandminipenguin]

I've just come back from having my whooping cough vaccine and the nurse didn't mention anything about the other things it vaccinates against! My midwife spoke to me about it at 18 weeks (I'm 32+5 now) and gave me a leaflet, but no mention of the additional things it protects again. Is it something the nurse should have told me about today before giving it to me?

[MishMooshAndMogwai]

Like you op, I had a leaflet that didn't specify the contents of the jab and didn't sign any consent form. I think consent was assumed when you booked the appointment to have it done!

[karatekimmi]

Morning all. Yes I did get a leaflet (which I read) and I have posted a link earlier - it mentions nothing about the 4 in 1 jab - just the benefits of having the whooping cough immunisation. The whooping cough jab was discussed, but at no point did anyone say anything about any other injections. I also didn't sign for the injection.

Thanks for all you replies - I feel a bit more reassured that I should have been told, although the outcome would have been the same!

[captainproton]

OP did your midwife not give you a leaflet about the jab earlier in your pregnancy explaining the vaccination? Mine did, it was for me to read and go away and think about it before going for it. Nurses don't really have time to go through it, thought that was the midwife job?

But surely having a 4 in 1 jab is a bonus?

[mimilovell]

Agreed with everyone above who is infavour of OP reporting the incident. The organsation, department and individuals should know their procedure needs to be changed.

To htf2, yes we that there are NO vaccine is 100% effective. Although, dont think futforbaby is saying that vaccines aren't effective. She is simply stating that one should still be careful, and still take procaution. In addition, to warn OP not to have the mindset that is is not immune from getting ill because she has taken the vaccine.

furforbaby is right, there has been a lot of cases of whooping cough ourbreaks where majority of the people has been vaccinated. This really blows your idea of person being around a population who has been vaccinated is better off from being around a population who hasnt.
www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/July-2010/Whooping-Cough-Outbreaks-Vaccine-Failures.aspx

I dont see any problem with her advice for OP to still take precaution.

[htf2]

It is reasonable to expect to be informed. I don't think that they should specifically engineer a separate vaccine that is pertussis only but people should know - I think for this one in particular they are really bad at telling people that it is 4 vaccines, all the midwives I have met (I'm 9 months pregnant, at a large london hospital and see a different midwife every time) have just called it the whooping cough vaccine. You may have signed something without reading it through, easily done when you know it is a consent form for the whooping cough vaccine and you are planning to get vaccinated.
I know this isn't the point of the thread but futforbaby I am not aware of any vaccines known to be 100% effective; to the contrary they are known to be e.g. 98% effective and no-one is trying to hide this. The people for whom it is not effective are so much safer surrounded by vaccinated people, 98% of whom will not catch it even if the disease is going around, so they can't pass it to the person who isn't effectively immunised. However if no-one else is immunised, their chances of exposure go up significantly. This is not 'just a theory'.

[mimilovell]

Agree with the Andro. Vaccines is a drug. I made a concious decision not to take any chemical drugs. I didn not even take paracetamols, even though the midwife said it was ok.

Everyone should be told the good bad and the ugly of any medical intervention or procedure. Especially then your carrying another human being, who is depending on you to make an informed decision, while he/she is developing so rapidly.

If something went wrong, the only person who would be sitting there thinking, if it was down the vaccine or not, is you. No other mother/ medical professional will be there making sure you and your baby is okay. And especially when this medication your taking is exempt from being sued. That is correct, if your baby dies or becomes disabled from the vaccine, you cannot sue the manufacturer.

Informed consent is key to making an informed decision. Like OP, I would be livid if that was me.

[Andro]

and this isn't a drug error

Yes it is! Op thought she was being given a whooping cough only vaccine, instead she was given 3 additional vaccines to which she did not give explicit consent. For someone with a history of vaccination problems, this kind of error could have been very dangerous (the vaccine has a good safety record, but a few people do have significant issues).

Op, you need to let the clinic know that this mess up occurred.

[futforbaby]

if I were you I would put in a complaint because we need to change the system. The NHS need to train their nurses to give complete informatio, so that you can make an informed choice. you should have told you exactly what vaccines are inside this jab. it was made out to be one vaccine, but in fact it is a all-in-one vaccine. that is deliberately being misleading. If all there Is, isnt a single whooping cough vaccine, then why just focus on whopping cough, and not the others? Surely if you believe the vaccine would protect yu from this and that, and your going to take it, then why wouldn't they tell you about You being protected from other stuff. maybe if you were told its a multiple Vaccines in one jab, you might have given it more consideratkonif to weather you will take it or Not. They do it with he mmr, and they tell you when your baby id born which jabs they are having and what it is for, so why not tell you when your baby unborn? Unless they fear you might not reget it. Because let's face it, every single person who reject
s a vaccine is costing them Money because they aren't able to meet their target.

because they have mislead you to believe it was single jab and they didn't fully inform you in a drug you are takin, you was unable to make an informed choose. It's your body and your baby, and as to be mothers we make careful decisions what we put into our bodies for our babies sake. Because information with withheld from you, you was not able to do that.
For this reason alone, I would definately complain.

there are a lot of people on here who just trying to reassure you , it's okay, and you have done the right thing. Don't worry. Even though, I agree they should all give you reassurance so that you can stop being angry and calm you down, the advice given is wrong.

Having the vaccine doesn't equal immunity. It's just a theory. You can still get ill With whooping cough. this is false reassurances You should still do what you have been doing before and be aware your immune system is weak, and that your body might not be able to produce antibodies. last year and the year before califonia has a outbreak of whooping cough, and if you read some of the mainstream headlines they blame the unvax for the outbreak. But when you look at the articles with statistics or reports, the majority of people who came down with whohoping cough were vaccinated and some recently had boosters. they also shown to have antibodies and still came down wih whooping cough. considering the vaccine only stimulate one part of the immune system, which is the antibodies part, your not immune. the only people who are protected are people who have had whooping cough and recovered from it because their entire immune system works together to combat the germ. So please be careful and still look after yourself and stay away from people who cough and practice good hygiene. Definagely don't go to near to a person with whooping cough, because your not immune.

Anyone on here or anywhere who says manufacturers wouldn't give he nhs this drug to inject in pregnant women, if they haven't tested it to be safe is wrong. They are just going by what a they think should be happening. the truth is the manufacturer s have states in their own document this vaccine hasn't been tested on pregnant women.

I totally agree vaccinating should be a choice. but if your not given the information, how can you make an informed choice?

[SeenSheen]

Well YANBU, it is outrageous to "slip in" an extra couple of vaccines especially as you are pregnant. Assumed consent appears to be the way of doctors surgeries nowadays as I assume it helps them keep the stats up. Although I'm sure it would have been written down when you signed the acceptance.

Whooping cough is not available as an individual vaccine, I think it is part of a 3 in 1 or a 5 in 1. I believe that the 3 in 1 is the booster vaccine given in or just before secondary school but I may have this wrong.

[Penfold007]

There is no whooping cough only vaccine. Since 2014 Boostrix IPV is the vaccination offered and its a 4 in 1 vaccination, so includes diphtheria, polio and tetanus. I'm sorry you weren't correctly informed before agreeing to the injection.

[MishMooshAndMogwai]

I had my WC jab a couple of months back and didn't know there were other components til I read this thread!

I didn't have the flu jab either but that was more time/forgetfulness rather than refusal. I only had WC because I had croup for 6 weeks over xmas that just would not go so my immune system was shot to shit anyway and I was starting a new placement with kids.

Id have agreed to the extras anyway but I agree with you that it would have been nice to have been told!

[Alisvolatpropiis]

My midwife didn't mention it being a multiple drug jab at any point, just the nurse who administered it. I suppose there's an assumption on the midwife's part that the nurse will cover that part?

[Bair]

I'm due my whooping cough jab on Tues. Will be interested to see if it's mentioned that it's a 4 in 1 as it hasn't been mentioned to me even though my midwife has mentioned having the jab for whooping cough on more than one occasion.

I am 100% pro vac. However I'm also 100% informed consent which I think is a huge issue with pregnant women and their pre natal care and care in childbirth, so I can see how someone who would have accepted the jab regardless like OP would still be miffed to be given information after the event.

[eyebags63]

But what's the issue? Perhaps she should have spelled it out but you know they are only human and this isn't a drug error.

But it is a drug error if she hasn't obtained informed consent before giving it. Just because the risks are low/none and no harm was done doesn't make it OK.

[Straycatblue]

Soduthen116
But what's the issue? Perhaps she should have spelled it out but you know they are only human and this isn't a drug error.

The issue is she consented for the nurse to inject her with one drug and afterwards the nurse told her she had actually been injected with four.

NMC guidelines state that patients are entitled to informed consent. It is a drug error. She was not told she was being given 3 of the 4 vaccines that the nurse gave her till after they were already injected. The op did not have an opportunity to hear the risks (doesnt matter if they are low or not) and make her own decision about her own body and developing child.

[Soduthen116]

Op sorry wasn't meaning to sound dismissive by the way just sure she wasn't meaning to be underhand but assumed you were aware.

[Soduthen116]

But what's the issue? Perhaps she should have spelled it out but you know they are only human and this isn't a drug error.

My dd caught whooping cough from me and her siblings at 2 weeks old. It was terrifying and she's number 4 so not a pfb.

Good luck with the pregnancy op.

Blessings to count aye when you look around the world to see the suffering of mums and babies so unlucky to have not been born in the west.

[karatekimmi]

I think that's the point - it was how it made me feel. I assume I had it with my DS and would have probably had it anyway, I'm not too worried about effects on me or the baby, its just it felt underhand.

leaflet

[eyebags63]

Actually I don't think YABU here. If you thought you were getting treatment A but you were actually given treatment B then that isn't informed consent is it?

Whether the jab comes as 4 in 1 only or vaccinations are a good thing or not is irrelevant; things should have been explained properly to you.