AIBU in specifying in my will that 'new' DP allows DS to live with him or hand over my share of property?

[freshstart24]

I am buying a house with my partner of 5 years. We will be tenants in common. owning a 50% share in the property. We have each put down the same amount of deposit (£50k).

I have a DS aged 8. DS sees his Dad every other weekend. His dad is financially unreliable, he does not earn a 'proper' wage (he has a hobby which he sees as a job). I supported him for years, saw the light and ended things. He cannot afford to rent anywhere to live, he is currently lodging with a friend but friend has asked him to leave soon. I am not trying to slag off my ex, he is a good dad in many ways but the thought of me dying and him becoming financially responsible for DS is terrifying.

Anyway, I am planning to leave my share of the house to DS. However, there will be a clause to say that DP can live in the house for as long as he likes- when he sells it though, my share will go to DS (managed by trustees until he is 24 as EXP will decide to but a porche etc with it if he gets to influence DS).

DP is leaving his share of the house to me.

So my question is- is it reasonable for me to put a clause in my will that DP can only stay in the house as long as he wants (therefore delaying DS getting his share), provided that DS can live there too if he wants/needs to. I realise DS may want to live with his Dad and that is fine but I would hate the thought of him not being welcome to stay there is he needed to. The problem then becomes that if DS was still young DP could not be expected to become his 'parent' and look after him full time.....

The second issue is that this could great a situation where DS carries on living 'at home' as an adult, rent free because my will had said DP needs to give him my share of the house unless he can live there.

Any advice would be great!

[magoria]

What happens if DP wants to live in the house until 60 and DS wants a house/wife/kids of his own?

How will he get the money if DP has a life interest?

[LotusLight]

And be careful about for a time as often it is for life so the step mother 30 years younger than the father outlives even the children so they never get a penny.

[hidingmystatus]

It is utterly normal even where you are talking about both original parents for the parent to leave their half of the house to the child with provision for the surviving parent to live there for a time. Comments about "I wouldn't sign up to this" are effectively accepting that any right your child might have will be at risk if the surviving partner remarries or changes their will.

However, you need proper legal advice to ensure you achieve precisely what you want here. Talk to a specialist.

[AppleAndBlackberry]

If I were you I would want my son to have the money at 21, or maybe some at 18 and some at 21. I would want to help him go to university, get on the property ladder etc and not have to wait until his 50s or 60s when DP died. If you feel DP is contributing more to the mortgage and deposit then you could make it 60:40 or 70:30 in his favour to reflect that.

[LotusLight]

1. You cannot remove your child's fathers right. Eg my younger children have older siblings who live/have lived here and are in effect their other parent. if I die however their father who does not much see them in law as the right to have them live with him. Now I have a letter of wishes with the will which says the children might stay with siblings but that cannot remove the father's rights and that is fine. now they are older teenagers it's not an issue anyway.
   

1. Leave your half of the house to your son as planned. I would do that if I had a new partner. If you die and he is under 18 yes have different trustees from your partner and from your ex and you could give a right to your child to live there until he is say 25 as even if he's 18 when you die he might want to be there in university holidays etc. Then say at 25 the property will be sold so your son gets his half. You don't want your ex living in it until he turns 100 and yuour son never getting the money!
   

However if you die next week and your ex pays the mortgage for 10 years and prices of properties and mortgage rates shoot up your ex may not be happy that your son gets half the equity in 10 years time. I suppose if that's the case the answer is he sells immediately you die to divide the proceeds.

[maninawomansworld]

I haven't read through the entire thread so sorry if I am repeating advice already offered but you need to get a financial advisor and solicitor involved to make sure everything is done correctly.

A very similar thing has happened to a friend of mine, basically his father re married then died and the new wife got pretty much everything as the arrangements had been drawn up badly.

Essentially she got everything, the son got about £20k out of an estate of £500k. It was his wish that the son should receive the lot!


This is far too important a decision to take advice from a load of randoms on an internet forum - get professionals in!

[mynewpassion]

Buy your own house and he buys his own.

your conditions would be untenable and I would lose my home in the future

[TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams]

If I was your child I would always wonder if the offer to live with your DP had only come about because of the financial implications for your DP of not making the offer.

I would word it that:
The 50% share of the property automatically goes to your DS,
Unless agreed otherwise with your DS's guardians the property will be sold and DS's share realised [therefore if the money is required for his upbringing it can be accessed]
DS can invoke the sale on his 30th birthday. If DP wants to buy him out before then, the funds can be invested by the guardians but will not be accessible before that point as a lump sum.
Should the asset be liquidated, the guardians will approve all spend and set a reasonable allowance for your son's upbringing.
DP has the right to buy him out at any time, however the value should be decided as a market average for the property [assuming it's not unique] so DP can't take advantage of a sudden downturn or run down the property to get a lower valuation
DP cannot Let out the property without consent from the Guardians or buying out the share.

[Purplepixiedust]

You may be able to find a way around this by taking out life insurance.

When my mum put some money into a house (in my name) where we lived together, I made a will leaving mum the sum she put in if I died. I then had life insurance to pay off the mortgage to provide security for my husband and son (ie no mortgage) and also took out life insurance to cover mums share so my husband would not need to sell the house.

You run the risk with what you suggest of creating a situation where people are living some years down the line with people they don't want to or in a house they don't want to. What if your sons Dad steps up? What if your husband wants to move house? Does he loose his life interest at that point. It may affect his ability to move on. He may find it intolerable to live in the house you shared if you are gone. If he is leaving his share to you it seems unreasonable for you not to do the same but of course you do need to provide for your son and cannot rely on him to do it. I understand your concerns.

I would consider taking out life insurance to leave something for your son. I would hope your DP would continue to offer your son a home but if not or if your son goes to live with his dad, both would be provided for.

[cjt110]

Its quite normal for TIC to leave their property (or share of) to their children from previous relationships. Most solicitors will advise to be TIC rather than joint tenants if there are historical children. (I have worked in conveyancing).

As long as you are both happy with the arrangement, go for it.

I have a will (drafted before our marriage) which covers allll eventualities (if we werent married what would happen, if we were and no children, if were and children, if he isnt alive etc etc)

[WinterOfOurDiscountTents15]

That really is the difficulty, isnt it? I suppose thinking about life insurance etc wouldn't help much either if the problem is not trusting your ex to use any money to benefit your son properly.

With regards to the house, I think in a way you have to disregard this clause if you're thinking about your son as a minor. Your DP can't have him live with him in the home as that wouldn't be his call, and you don't want him to have to sell the house which anyway would either have to go into a trust for your adult son so as to keep it away from your ex. And that doesn't solve the problem of there being money to raise your son because the issue isn't so much securing the money as how it would be used by his father?

I think you need to establish if there is any legal way of essentially forcing your ex to use any money (from whatever source) for the needs of your son and not on a porsche! I have no idea if thats possible though. It seems like the first thing to establish though, going on your priorities?

[Alibabsandthe40Musketeers]

Yes good point, you absolutely need life insurance that goes to your DS. And you need to appoint a Guardian and trustee of that.

[Alibabsandthe40Musketeers]

Well I think you need to make provision for your DS in your will. I think he should inherit your half of the house, and if your DP wants to still live there then he can buy him out, or the house is sold.

Are you really leaving your money to your partner instead of your child? That seems all the wrong way around to me.

[SodiumReindeer]

If you appoint somebody else as an executor of your will and as a guardian of your DS then they will have financial control of the assets and be able to stop your ex getting his hands on them, I've done that for exactly those reasons. See a solicitor and get them to do it for you as it needs to be watertight, I don't claim to understand how it's done but it can be done.

[LurcioAgain]

I think the answer to your problems is to separate out the two issues - the inheritance, and what your DS would have for living expenses while young.

Take out life insurance for yourself to the value required for your son and take legal advice on how to get this held in trust and doled out in small portions so it genuinely is spent on your son and his education, not on a new porsche for your ex.

And then leave the current arrangement for your house untouched.

(This is pretty much what I'm doing as a single parent - house would get held in trust and rented out by son's guardians until he was 21, life insurance would cover his living expenses and education).

[freshstart24]

Winter, thank you I appreciate your thoughts. No, I haven't asked my solicitor what is 'usual'. That is a good idea. Would love to know what other people have done.....

[PurpleCrazyHorse]

I agree with the poster who set an age limit that could only be extended by the Trustees. That gives your DS chance to live in the house until he's an adult but also gives an end time for everyone too. However what if DP wants to live there for the next 50 years, moves in a new partner etc, do you want your DS to wait for his share of your will until then? Just a question really. My parents had a clause which stated they can't move a new partner in permanently.

What arrangements do you have for your DS if he's not an adult when you die? I'm just thinking that your DP could sell up, give DS his share and move on - sorry super harsh but trying to think what might happen if you died young and DP met someone else.

The other thing to think of is can DP downsize and pocket the equity. My parents tenants-in-common will allowed this as step father would have needed to pay for carers, so he would have had to sell the family home. However he died first, so mum downsized and lives off the equity. Step father's daughter wasn't at all happy as she now only gets 50% of mum's new flat, not 50% of the value of the family home. Totally above board and both mum & step dad agreed to the details of the will but sometimes greed can get in the way for those inheriting.

Some things to think about, that's all.

[freshstart24]

Ysabell, assuming that I am dead and EXP is alive I cannot make a will which removes his right to take care of his own child. Custody cannot be dictated by my will. If he was left my money with the intention of using to look after DS he would very likely gamble it, buy a hideously expensive car, continue not working and use it to fund himself.

[WinterOfOurDiscountTents15]

x-posts. I can see its a very difficult problem, and by saying it wouldn't work for me I'm not in any way criticising your attempts to safeguard an inheritance for your child. Just offering another perspective.

Have you asked your solr if there is any standard/usual approach to this circumstance?

[WinterOfOurDiscountTents15]

The problem there that the OP's ex will automatically be the guardian of and get legal custody of their son, unless he is declared unfit/challenged by another party with standing etc. She specifically doesn't want him to be able to get the cash/half the house.

[freshstart24]

Winter, I see what you mean, thank you for clarifying things.

If I leave this clause out I am concerned that if I die whilst DS is young he could be left with nothing and his Dad would be unable to support him financially (he really is spectacularly rubbish with money).

Meanwhile DP lives in the house and sits on money that DS could desperately need. But we wouldn't be in this house if it wasn't for my lovely, kind, thoughtful DP and I need to look after him too.

Argh!!!

[YsabellStoHelit]

The guardians named I trust with my kids, I certainly trust them with my cash.

[YsabellStoHelit]

Do you have anything in your will about legal custody of your DC if you weren't here?

In our wills our estate basically goes to whoever would be looking after our DCs or our DCs (if over 21) I would expect the guardians to then use what we have to help them have a more comfortable life with the kids. This has been discussed with the guardians and they have told us they would happily do this and the combined household finances (ours and theirs) would be willed to our kids as well as any they may have in future. So essentially our money would be used to bring up the DCs then would go to them later on.

[iwishiwasasarah]

You can word it that DH has a life interest in the house and it cannot be sold without his agreement, which may help and may also stop DS's dad getting his hands on the share.

[WinterOfOurDiscountTents15]

I mean I wouldn't sign to buy the house with you with such a clause attached to the house.
The way I would see it is this: we're buying a house together, intending to live together. She trusts me to live with and be involved with her child, to make a life together for us all. However, in the event of her death, I am forced to either live with her son or sell my home.
There are so many scenarios to consider: what if we fall out before or after the event? Just a random scenario (not impugning you or your child at all!): what if he's say a drug addict or has a drink problem, your DP has to let him live there or sell? Or gentler, he has a girlfriend/boyfriend/etc, does DP have to have them both live there or sell? Children too? What if your DP wants to live with someone/marry again?

It just seems very rigid as a plan, and difficult for those you leave behind.