To think its a bad idea for a school to employ too many parents?

[whattodooo]

I don't know if this is specific to my childrens (primary) school or not, but it seems that every TA and lunch time assistant has a child in the school. A few of my friends have found the TA parents are indiscreet and sometimes unprofessional in the way they handle certain situations. (I.e discussing sensitive incidents in the playground rather than in the classroom and commenting on friendships and playground politics).

At least half of them aren't formally qualified as TA's or Classroom Assistants, and recently the head has approached a parent who volunteers in the uniform shop and suggested they apply for a SEN support role, for which they admit they aren't qualified but are going to apply for anyway because he suggested they did.

Now they don't actually have the job yet I realise, so it might come to nothing, but AIBU to feel there should be an element of professional distance between teaching staff and pupils, and that the children possibly aren't recieving the support they deserve?

[Heyho111]

I really didn't like parents being TA's when my kids were in primary school. Not all but the majority did talk to other parents about other children. They also had a bias towards their own. I found it really uncomfortable. I didn't have an issue with my own but I could see what was happening and there was in most cases a marked difference to the professionalism of a parent TA and a non parent TA.

[LaLyra]

I've always found it the other way round with children of parents working in the school being somewhat disadvantaged. I got very annoyed with one parent/colleague who punished her child for a telling off I'd had to give her. It wasn't fair because two kids played up, one child's Mum heard about it because she worked in the school, one didn't because it wasn't at ALL a serious incident that merited contacting a parent. There were a few children in that school whose parents were teachers or TAs and the Deputy Head's granddaughter attended the school and if anything they were at a disadvantage with things like school plays because people were very conscious to show that their wasn't favouritism.

I don't think qualifications are as important for a TA as rapport with the specific child or children. The best TA I've ever worked with would describe herself as thick, I would have said not academic, but she was amazing with children on the spectrum and one of the best at spotting what triggered some kids.

That said breaches of confidentiality should be flagged up. If they don't know about it the HT can't deal with it.

[ReallyTired]

I think that special qualities like patience, empathy are more important than fancy qualifications for TAs who work with children who have complex needs. Schools that do not advertise externally for these roles are not getting the best person for the job.

[TheIronGnome]

I was a SEN TA in my gap year at 18. It was a very high needs special school and I don't think any of the TAs were qualified, or even experienced when they started.

[bigbluebus]

I think the issue of confidentiality is key here, regardless of whether they are parents or not.

It is certainly common at my local Primary School for parents to be employed as TA's although most start as volunteers whilst they do their NVQ qualifications and then stay on as jobs become available.

Similarly many of the lunchtime supervisors are parents.

They should all have contracts with confidentiality clauses. If they are breeching this then you should report them. I once had cause to report a lunchtime supervisor for gossiping about my DS in a local club. The person who overheard the conversation told me but didn't want me to be specific when I reported it as it would identify her. I told the HT that one of his LT Supervisors had been talking about my DS to a non staff member in a public place and had been overheard. He appreciated why I couldn't give specifics so called all 4 of them in to remind them on their 'confidentiality agreement'. Ironically, the one who had been overheard kept quiet, whilst one of the others, who unknown to me had also been talking about DS in the local shop, owned up . So it seems it is quite commonplace and needs stamping out. The only way to do that is to report it.

I volunteer at the school although I didn't start until my DS was in his final year and never worked in his class. Even people who volunteer to listen to readers are told that they must not even discuss a child's reading with the parent let alone discuss children in general with other people.

[unlucky83]

I was an unqualified SEN TA - I got asked if I wanted to do it because the SEN coordinator knew me outside school and thought I'd be good at it...and I needed some part time work.
You do what the teacher/SEN coordinator plans and I got training from some specialist departments.
I worked with a few children and it was extremely rewarding and challenging sometimes but the one I am proudest of is a little dyslexic boy - 7 - very bright, unable to read, had been having support for years.
We clicked - but his mother complained about me - I wasn't qualified, etc. (Actually I think she had 'issues' -she also hated one of the most popular teachers, who all the children loved...think that was a kind of jealousy) Anyway after hours of being seen in a specialist department and with me following the program - learning letters by drawing pictures and tracing and running little balls around on letter shapes and trying to blend etc one day I asked him if he knew what we were trying to do? - letters make sounds, you put the sounds together etc ...he went away puzzled and came back the next session saying I can spell dragon (actually spelled it 'dragen' but we cleared that up) massive progress - he went on to exceed his 9 month target in 3 months...his mother went silent.
I had to move on at the end of that year but I got informal reports back for a couple of years from the SEN Co- he was doing really well last time I heard, made it into mainstream secondary etc ...
No doubt he would have 'got it' at some point anyway ...but I don't think I held him back ....

[tbtc]

The problem is the unprofessional TAs, that's all. If they sorted that out then it wouldn't matter who they hired. Also, parents need to respect the position of the TA.

The TA in my son's yr1 class also has twins in the same class. We are good friends and it's a small village where most parents know each other.

In school she is Mrs TA and out of school she is Martha (not her real name).
I have not seen any parent approach her out of school, expecting her to don her TA role. If I wanted to talk to her in the park or when we meet socially I would ask her whether I could talk to her as TA not parent. It's quite a clear boundary IMO.

And if I felt she was being unprofessional I would report her to the class teacher straight away - for the sake of all the children in the class, not just mine.

[MrsNextDoor]

Whattoodoo do they DO that?? Really!? Without asking permission!

I am that this is thought to be acceptable! I will be asking in my DDs school if this is done.

[MrsNextDoor]

YANBU. My friend was very disconcerted by one Mum in the playground who as a volunteer reader, kept commenting on her child's progress.

My friend was grateful for the woman's time...but not for the constant teacher-ish commenting. She wanted her relationship to be as it had been in the past...just Mums who spoke now and then at pick up.

[ClaudetteWyms]

Some very dodgy sounding practices going on in some schools on this thread!

I volunteer in DD's primary school and have never heard of anyone just being offered a TA role. I would be very shocked to be offered a paid role at all, I would expect to have to apply for it if I wanted it. I really don't think schools should just offer roles to anyone - there must be plenty of over qualified candidates out there who could be better at the job!

Parents working/volunteering in schools can be a mixed blessing. Some are great but I have come across one or two who are very indiscreet about pupils when gossiping with other parents, which is not on at all.

[Whatamayday]

Oh and don't mention children winning awards to me! The daughter of the chair of governors playing Mary for the third year? The son of the deputy head playing Joseph? I'm not exaggerating.

I dont think the issue is the calibre of candidate applying. When we advertise for a TA in a secondary school, we get hundreds of replies. Many candidates are teacher trained but want a role which fits in with their family life.

At my dc's primary, however, i think mums volunteer to help out in the school then before they know it they are 'offered' a TA role. My dc's one to one TA was a midday assistant then was given a full-time role. She appears to have an aptitude for the job but she is not trained or qualified. The head is just more comfortable employing people the school knows. I don't agree with it at all.

[whattodooo]

It does seem like a minefield. We've also had TA's disclose that particular children (who they name) are used as case studies in various teachers development.

While I appreciate this has to be done to develop skills, it's not great to think of your child as a little guinea pig being used as an example of difficult or challenging behaviour - surely this kind of thing is confidential?

In some cases they undermine the teaching staff and it just doesn't sit well with me really.

[NickiFury]

Agree that you don't need quals to be TA and/or one to one support for children with SN or SEN. Sure there are some wonderful ones out there but in my experience (extensive), pretty much anyone is given that job as long as they're willing to turn up on the day. That said the one my ds loved the best was a 19 year lad from the local college who had no experience whatsoever. They just connected .

[flora717]

I'm training as a TA and my placement is in my daughter's school. It's made my mind up to not apply to the school. I am not able to treat teachers / TA's as colleagues as I don't want to put teachers in an uncomfortable position (eg I stay clear of the staff room), I make it clear on the school pick up that I don't gossip (so I am stood all alone really, not that they're all miserable here but the only parents who seem to say Hi always have a question about child x/y/z. Parent's evening is tricky as i feel the teacher might hold back. Plus there's the delight of everyone rolling their eyes at assembly should one of my 2 DD's be so controversial as to win an award gor anything.
Plus I can't invite children from school to parties (blurred area) so my kids hate it.

[TenerifeSea]

Many years ago, before mandatory qualifications, I worked in a small nursery school that mostly employed parents. I was not a parent at the time. It was the bitchiest, most gossipy work place I've ever worked in. It really put me off but we had ridiculous waiting lists because parents liked the community, family feel. I wonder if they knew about the gossips and the lack of discretion if they'd really want to send their children there.

[muminhants]

I think schools should employ TAs who are professional and who understand the concept of confidentiality - regardless of whether or not they have kids at the school.

This. Effectively you want TAs (and helpers) who are sensible enough not to gossip. If you can't be sure of that, don't employ them or have them help. I'm not sure the benefits of extra help in the classroom outweigh the damage that can be done by gossiping.

[whattodooo]

That's part of the problem, it creates a culture where parents don't feel comfortable to speak up when usually they would and it just seems wrong.

The SEN position going at the moment isn't even being advertised externally (I didn't realise that at time of posting) which again, doesn't seem right.

I won't voice my concerns though because I actually like the people involved on a personal level and don't want to become a playground pariah.

I just don't know how schools don't realise the tensions this overlap in personal and professional creates.

[Greenrememberedhills]

I agree with kampeki. I knew a TA who was horribly indiscreet, and was foolish enough to gossip about my youngest with my SiL. Who is also indiscreet.

I would have complained but didn't want to drop SiL in it.

[MrsEvadneCake]

I think that there is good and bad in all walks of life. Speaking personally we all travel and it's our living wage. We are a school with a high % of FSM and have high expectations of staff in all roles. We are highly trained and have continuing professional development. I think it's sad personally that other schools don't set high standards and they are the reason that TAs are often seen as poor value for money.

[Metaphors]

I think this is very affected by the demographic of the local area TBH. At £8p/hr people aren't going to travel far, or take on childcare costs. In some areas, there is an abundance of well qualified SAHMs, looking to do "something" once DC start school, but not needing to earn a living wage. Probably have a good support network that means they can do the courses and get the specific TA qualifications.

In other areas, while we still get loads of applications, a very high % are from people who are barely literate.

[MrsEvadneCake]

You should expect good qualifications. I'm very qualified as are my colleagues. It says more about the school leadership team than the people who are employed. SLT should expect a professional manner in staff and look to employ those whose are most qualified, not convenient.

[ReallyTired]

I could not agree more. I hate it when you have parent helpers helping out in their child's class. I also think that children need a bit their own space away from mum. It's not so bad at secondary. I am working in my son's school but I never see him as there are 1200 children.

[IamTheWhoreofBabylon]

I agree
My DD has SEN and her TA is unqualified
Her approach is awful, she treats her like a naughty child. I've had loads of meetings and complained but HT will not listen

[Bunnyjo]

At DC's school there are 2 TAs with children attending (only 5 TAs in total as it is a tiny village school), the school cook has his children at the school, one of the lunchtime supervisors has her children at school and, prior to attending secondary school, the admin assistant had her child at the school. All but one of the children transferred to the school after their parent had started working at there.

I can say, categorically, that I have no problem with this. The staff are all extremely professional and I actually think it is a reflection of the school that so many staff wish for their own children to be educated there.

[Metaphors]

I agree with you Whatamayday, TAs would ideally be better qualified but the "ordinary" ones (not HLTA) earn around £8p/hr. What kind of qualifications do you think you can expect?