To want to wriggle out of the preschool committee

[Lottie5]

Am a SAHM and dd (3) had started the local preschool. The chair of the preschool committee is a super-mum, she manages to be on tons of committees despite having two small children and she invited me to join the committee ( as I had "lots of free time"!) Anyway fast forward a few months and it's doing my head in!! I spend nearly every evening doing work for the committee and every time I run into this woman she gives me a new job to do!! What started as a nice way of helping has become a chore!! Has anyone else ended up on a committee they regretted?! Seems a bit too soon to wriggle out if it!!!

[Clayhead]

My DSis ended up at an emoyment tribunal due to being on a Pre-School committee, it dragged on for over two years with various dates being set and cancelled and lawyers changing, new barristers recruited etc. was a nightmare for all concerned . It pretty much ruined her dc's start at school due to all the stress and mither.

[Clayhead]

Employment

[cleantheplaceup]

Sympathies :(

I was unwittingly on a 'puppet' committee.

Basically the head of pre school selects the most naive and compliant people and invites them to join, then kind of brushes other people's offers off saying they don't need to put themselves out have plenty of numbers etc.

To ensure compliance she makes sure most people on the Committee don't have enough time to start questioning how things are done, refuses to let them do any work at all and then just relies on a hardcore of three people to get absolutely everything else done she also organised a coup to throw out a chair she didn't like a few years ago

Then once you are suckered in, like previous posters have said, you realise that you are actually responsible for what happens in the setting, but in our case have no power to change it.

Never, ever, ever again,

[unlucky83]

Clay that's the main problems with the current set up. The committee are parents, with only their own life experience to go on. It is basically running a small business- they have to do things like employ and discipline staff, keep the charity regulator, the early years learning team, child protection etc etc happy ....and take financial responsibility. They probably have no prior idea about all the red tape that goes with these things...
(My DP had his own business - I looked after the paperwork side - it was a nightmare - a maze of legalities...the worse was managing staff. And in lots of ways employment law favours the employee...more than most people realise - we had someone who turned up for work on drugs, upset another member of staff and walked out - you would think that was instant dismissal - it isn't - it is the start of a process which can take weeks, all the whilst you pay their wages.... We had learned this the hard way - we got threatened with a tribunal by an ex-member of staff who DP was fond of -it was dropped the day before the hearing. Cost us a few thousand in legal fees etc. DP hadn't followed the rules - he'd been trying to help them out of a sticky situation - but the long and short of it after that I would always do things exactly by the rules, get legal advice and never ever do someone a favour - think someone wouldn't do that - because they might...)

That's why preschool committees need good support. We are also a member of the Scottish Preschool Play Association who provide us with help and advice (we pay an annual membership) but honestly recently they have been less helpful with the day to day running. (eg Offering no advice or help on the new autoenrolment for pensions...which I can't understand as every small employer/preschool group is likely to be going to have to face that nightmare!!!) However through our insurance we have a legal advice line - and we have used it and would use it again....and we have legal action insurance cover.

[Lottie5]

Wow didn't realise I could be financially liable!!! Yes I agree with a lot of what's been said - super mum has no experience of running a company yet she has to sort out contracts, wages etc - it's not ideal.

[PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom]

Don't you have a payroll company helping out? You should.

[BarbarianMum]

Hah, I agreed to be Vice Chair and the Chair promptly resigned so I was acting Chair then agreed to be Chair. Did it for 2 years then, as soon as my youngest was out of there, quit. Didn't mind being Chair so much but did mind that so few parents were prepared to do anything, ever. Oh, except moan and demand and say things like "Wouldn't it be a good idea to ". They were quite good at that.

When I announced I was leaving (along w most of the committee, such as it was) it was difficult to find any replacements. So we held an extra-ordinary meeting and told everyone if we didn't have people to fill the committee vacancies the school would shut the next day. And so the next generation of victims was ensnared...

[lavendersun]

Step away OP, do what is right for you and not anyone else.

It sounds like they need a proper administrator or the manager to take responsibility for administrating it.

I have always avoided committees but was a governor for one appointment term, after that I left because I am not a 'yes' woman and had worked out that the chair, vice chair and their 'insiders' had got it all sewn up and were only interested in 'yes' people.

[flowery]

You don't need to resign, you just need to not sit there and allow all these jobs to be "doled out" to you in committee meetings. When she says Lottie5 can you do x, you say I'm afraid not I'm already doing y and z can you ask someone else please.

[MaybeDoctor]

The playgroups and pre-schools movement started when (mostly) mothers got together to organise some form of early years provision for their children because there was, in many areas, absolutely bugger all else available. They started off being voluntary organisations and have (mostly) remained that way ever since - but the requirements of being a committee member are often too much for parents to take on.

I laughed like a drain when the government first suggested that groups of parents should get together to run free schools.

[unlucky83]

Our group could use a payroll company -but it costs. Less than our administrator but then they do other stuff as well...so is more cost effective.
And the payroll company we looked at are cheap (they are also a voluntary organisation) but they just do the monthly wage payments ...deal with the HMRC not contracts etc.
We can get example contracts from the SPPA and also ACAS are fantastic for advice -both their helpline and their website.
I find the auto enrollment thing interesting -looks like the SPPA don't want to get involved, the Pension Regulator will give you some guidance but only general - all to do with not being in a position to give out financial advice...back covering on a grand scale and leaving the small business (or in this case the preschool) out on a limb...
It is like a vicious circle - preschools are tied up in a lot of this bureaucracy because they do accept government funding (or they couldn't have competed with Nurseries), so they need to employ only qualified staff (and parent helpers don't count towards ratios), need to satisfy the 'educational' requirements and pass inspections, write self evaluations and they need to satisfy the care commission requirements, to make the best of their money they need to operate as a registered charity - more bureaucracy....and all that costs money -it isn't cheap, so you have to charge the parents a fair amount a session - who then probably wouldn't go unless they were funded as it costs too much so the preschool take on funded children ...and it goes round.
Sometimes I think they should drop the funding, which would drop most of the bureaucracy and just exist as somewhere a parent can take their child for a bit of preschool peer group interaction -maybe with one paid member of staff and a few parent helpers on a rota - but then I doubt you'd be able to get insurance if some parents left their children in the care of other parents...
I'm also involved with another group targeted at younger children and all the parents do stay - regulars take it in turns to provide snack and come early to set up ... everyone helps tidy up - it is more or less runs itself...has tiny overheads - cost of hall rent and insurance ...so it costs parents £1.50 a visit ...(and being on the committee is really easy!)

[wasabipeanut]

Agree with others who have said that you need to start saying no before quitting completely although I can understand why you might. I joined the committee when DD was at pre school with the brief of sitting out the website & doing some marketing.

However I seemed to spend vast amounts of time on it. The politics and emails copying everyone which were replied to copying in everyone else etc. sucked up so much time. I was also worriex by the personal liability aspect. I stood down when DD stopped going bug DS2 is now a half term in and I've been added to step up again but I'm holding out. He'll only be there for 2 terms abd I just can't face it.

[wasabipeanut]

Sorting out the website. Bloody phone.

[wasabipeanut]

One post. So many errors...

[PreschoolHell]

I am on citalopram, in counselling and now have a non optional court summons to an employment tribunal after 3 years as chair of a preschool committee. I am also unemployed after the stress of that plus my job meant my only option was to quit before I had a complete nervous breakdown. If the preschool loses, and we have to pay out, there won't be enough money to cover any damages plus redundancy payments for the 11 other staff - I then become personally financially responsible for the shortfall (with the other committee members) and face being taken to court for that money as well. This is in the village I live in, the staff and the person involved in the tribunal are all parents at the school where my children are, and I have to face them on a daily basis on the school run.

It has nearly, nearly broken me and there is a real possibility that the court case will ruin me, mentally and financially.

Make sure your committee redoes its constitution as a Charitable Incorporated Organisation ASAP and refuse to have anything to do with it until it does. You are at least financially protected.

[PreschoolHell]

I am on citalopram, in counselling and now have a non optional court summons to an employment tribunal after 3 years as chair of a preschool committee. I am also unemployed after the stress of that plus my job meant my only option was to quit before I had a complete nervous breakdown. If the preschool loses, and we have to pay out, there won't be enough money to cover any damages plus redundancy payments for the 11 other staff - I then become personally financially responsible for the shortfall (with the other committee members) and face being taken to court for that money as well. This is in the village I live in, the staff and the person involved in the tribunal are all parents at the school where my children are, and I have to face them on a daily basis on the school run.

It has nearly, nearly broken me and there is a real possibility that the court case will ruin me, mentally and financially.

Make sure your committee redoes its constitution as a Charitable Incorporated Organisation ASAP and refuse to have anything to do with it until it does. You are at least financially protected.

[PreschoolHell]

I am on citalopram, in counselling and now have a non optional court summons to an employment tribunal after 3 years as chair of a preschool committee. I am also unemployed after the stress of that plus my job meant my only option was to quit before I had a complete nervous breakdown. If the preschool loses, and we have to pay out, there won't be enough money to cover any damages plus redundancy payments for the 11 other staff - I then become personally financially responsible for the shortfall (with the other committee members) and face being taken to court for that money as well. This is in the village I live in, the staff and the person involved in the tribunal are all parents at the school where my children are, and I have to face them on a daily basis on the school run.

It has nearly, nearly broken me and there is a real possibility that the court case will ruin me, mentally and financially.

Make sure your committee redoes its constitution as a Charitable Incorporated Organisation ASAP and refuse to have anything to do with it until it does. You are at least financially protected.

[PreschoolHell]

I am on citalopram, in counselling and now have a non optional court summons to an employment tribunal after 3 years as chair of a preschool committee. I am also unemployed after the stress of that plus my job meant my only option was to quit before I had a complete nervous breakdown. If the preschool loses, and we have to pay out, there won't be enough money to cover any damages plus redundancy payments for the 11 other staff - I then become personally financially responsible for the shortfall (with the other committee members) and face being taken to court for that money as well. This is in the village I live in, the staff and the person involved in the tribunal are all parents at the school where my children are, and I have to face them on a daily basis on the school run.

It has nearly, nearly broken me and there is a real possibility that the court case will ruin me, mentally and financially.

Make sure your committee redoes its constitution as a Charitable Incorporated Organisation ASAP and refuse to have anything to do with it until it does. You are at least financially protected.

[PreschoolHell]

I am on citalopram, in counselling and now have a non optional court summons to an employment tribunal after 3 years as chair of a preschool committee. I am also unemployed after the stress of that plus my job meant my only option was to quit before I had a complete nervous breakdown. If the preschool loses, and we have to pay out, there won't be enough money to cover any damages plus redundancy payments for the 11 other staff - I then become personally financially responsible for the shortfall (with the other committee members) and face being taken to court for that money as well. This is in the village I live in, the staff and the person involved in the tribunal are all parents at the school where my children are, and I have to face them on a daily basis on the school run.

It has nearly, nearly broken me and there is a real possibility that the court case will ruin me, mentally and financially.

Make sure your committee redoes its constitution as a Charitable Incorporated Organisation ASAP and refuse to have anything to do with it until it does. You are at least financially protected.

[PreschoolHell]

I am on citalopram, in counselling and now have a non optional court summons to an employment tribunal after 3 years as chair of a preschool committee. I am also unemployed after the stress of that plus my job meant my only option was to quit before I had a complete nervous breakdown. If the preschool loses, and we have to pay out, there won't be enough money to cover any damages plus redundancy payments for the 11 other staff - I then become personally financially responsible for the shortfall (with the other committee members) and face being taken to court for that money as well. This is in the village I live in, the staff and the person involved in the tribunal are all parents at the school where my children are, and I have to face them on a daily basis on the school run.

It has nearly, nearly broken me and there is a real possibility that the court case will ruin me, mentally and financially.

Make sure your committee redoes its constitution as a Charitable Incorporated Organisation ASAP and refuse to have anything to do with it until it does. You are at least financially protected.

[RedSoloCup]

Feel for you OP.

I was once Chair after saving our playgroup from closure (a few of us had to form a committee and get grants etc).

Sadly for this reason I've sent DC3 to a different group, I haven't the time or the energy to do it all again.

Just send a polite email saying due to other commitments you can no longer be on the committee.

I wish I had!

[ChutesTooNarrow]

If you stay you must check the pre-school insurance and check it includes indemnity for financial liability for committee members. If you are part of an organisation such as the pre-school learning alliance it will be part of your constitution to have this. I would absolutely not stay without this insurance or a very healthy contingency fund!

I would just be upfront that you can't take on anymore. You would cause huge problems if you left the committee short of members - it wouldn't be able to manage the pre-school without a legal committee. You need to check your constitution on this.

Fwiw our pre-school was completely open before last years agm that it was a management committee: that it included responsibility for staff, financial responsibility and accountability to ofsted. We made sure to say 'management committee' rather than just 'committee'. We laid it all out, and actually got a brilliant response and have a great, dedicated committee who know what they've signed up for. We open fundraising to all parents to help with whenever they can, with no commitment, so it's not just handled by the management committee. We don't fundraise more than twice a year and keep it simple. We are all volunteers and don't have time to organise much more than a toy sale or sponsored bike ride. I would suggest similar to your chair!

[unlucky83]

preschool The only thing I can say is that when were going through the employment tribunal thing there was an ACAS person who acted as a go between with the person taking us to tribunal. Do you have contact with someone like that?
Also do you have legal cover in your insurance? Find out and speak to them...they can probably help too.
Does the person taking you to tribunal realise that will be the death of the playgroup and the others will lose their jobs? (I think the person who was taking us thought it would be all paid by insurance or something not coming out of our pocket)
Finally the first settlement request we got was for an insane amount of money -think tens of thousands ..would have been the end of the business. This went back and forward - they finally settled for less than £200...like I said the day before the tribunal....I think their legal person was pushing to get as much money for their client as possible - seeing when we'd crack...
I do know how stressful it is though...but don't lose hope yet.

[PreschoolHell]

Chutes it is not possible to obtain insurance against legal damages or redundancy payments for staff. Please believe me, I have checked into this at length - we have/had the standard PLA policy for our setting and they WILL NOT cover you for this. You are covered for public liability and a few other things, but not these costs. As far as I am aware, it is not possible to obtain insurance for those. Our legal costs are paid, but not any damages.

We did everything by the book, used the legal helpline to make sure we were covered and it has still come to this.

And as for contingency funds, it takes years to build one up and it is very difficult to maintain one.

Please do not try and guilt the OP into staying on the committee by saying it will cause problems if she leaves - this method of committee recruitment does not produce committed members or good governance.

I would again recommend that you redo your constitution as a CIO - that WILL give you financial protection as the preschool effectively becomes a limited liability company.

[PreschoolHell]

unlucky we have legal cover and a solicitor. The ACAS route was a waste of time.

I think other parties involved are fully aware of the consequences, and simply don't care.