To think we should get over our Apple habit

[Ruggles]

Am watching the Panorama programme about Apple and really upset. I'm probably being a bit naive, but they are hypocritical and we have bought into all their lies about being ethical/caring more than others etc. Are our techie products really worth this?

[DisgraceToTheYChromosome]

As a First World consumer, I accept that I have a fair bit of other people's blood on my hands. Which is why I dislike Apple and their supply chain because to add hypocrisy to indifference ìs cowardly.

The Chinese will improve fairly quickly as their middle class grows. Then they'll shove all their bonded labour practices offshore to Africa, having thrown the locals off all the productive farmland.

[twoopsie]

Apple Environment Ad:

Surely they save so much on commuting as they have 12 sleeping in a tiny slave room next to the factory? All their policy s make them look good on paper, but that's all it is.

[twoopsie]

Better:

[twoopsie]

Well of course its not true, but from is vom adverts about social responsibility that's what it claims to be.

[LittleBearPad]

Thid should be this

[LittleBearPad]

There are a lot of people saying Apple is an ethical brand... It's cuddly and fluffy...

Seriously is thid really true? Steve Jobs was not remotely cuddly or fluffy, nor, would I say is the company he founded. If you look at all the technology, toys, clothes etc in your house that have come from China can you honestly say that those manufacturers are any better?

[twoopsie]

Apple as the worst as they pretend to be a fluffy cuddly brand when they are no different and have the money in the bank to make a real change. It is obscene the profit margin on their phones and the exploitation that goes into it. I hate the wanky designed by apple in California that they stamp on their shit.

Sadly most people are selfish and as long as they are distanced from the harm that goes into the products they like, they don't care.

[YellowTulips]

Watched the program and thought it wholly biased.

The reason Apple was targeted is that they unlike many other companies have an ethnical charter they try to uphold.

Most technology is manufactured in China and whether you buy a phone from Samsung, Sony or Apple the working conditions are compromised and the reason is the Chinese government does not impose or uphold any basic workers rights.

I'm am very far from saying this is right, but I think laying this at Apple's door when they have actually set strict conditions in this regard (unlike other manufacturers) is unfair.

Yes, they should work harder to ensure their rules over workers rights are enforced - but other companies need to do more also.

Overall I thought the program raised a very important issue but totally diluted and polluted the message with its heavyweight anti Apple bias.

[usefully]

What exactly is the problem with Apple?

I have an iPad and an iPhone, because they're easy to use and reliable.

Am I missing something?

[whois]

The entire philosophy of the company is pretty narcy too - all of the obsession with making them not compatible with anything else.

Right. Only on MN would a company be described as 'narcy'. FFS.

Apple doesn't exist for the benefit of mankind. It exists with the ultimate aim to drive value for the shareholders.

[whois]

I've not bought into any ethos that they are a good and ethical company. I have always had macs since I was 6 and I like having beautiful technology which works amazingly.

[blackgoat]

When I worked in China (in an office not a factory) all my Chinese colleagues napped in the exact same manner on the tables etc. this was done during breaks as well as when they were supposed to be
working....they did the exact same hours as me, so they couldn't have been much more tired than me. And I wasn't that tired.
I realise working conditions in factories will be different, however my point is Chinese working culture is a lot more different. So while some of the things shouldn't be happening others will happen due to cultural differences.
Also I think what apple is trying to say with regards to being the most ethical company...they are probably more ethical than competition. So if you went into Samsung HTC etc suppliers' factories the situation there might be even worse.

[LittleBearPad]

Do they Saturn. When? I really have never thought Apple was more ethical than HP/Samsung etc

[saturnvista]

I think the focus on apple is because they trade on an image of being exemplary when it comes to ethics.

[Andrewofgg]

Apple is rich and successful and that makes it a target for anti-business activism.

[Bulbasaur]

We need to use things until they are knackered, then recycle them. The cost of constantly updated technology is felt by people, by our wallets and by our planet and it is costing too much.

Electronic waste is sent to 3rd world countries for recycling where it is causing the sorters health problems. Recycling isn't working either.

[Bulbasaur]

Steve Jobs has never supported charities. He never advocated for any charities. He stuck strictly to business and marketing his Apple fad product. Apple can't do anything that Android can't do as well. It's a matter of preference.

I'm not sure where you go the idea that over priced phones were more ethical than products from companies like Microsoft whose CEO's are active humanitarians.

[JackieOLantern]

Why the focus on Apple though? Steve Jobs never claimed to be more ethical than other companies, just more creative, innovative, daring maybe. Any of the manufacturing methods / labour conditions outlined by Panorama are just standard practice. All mobile phone manufacturers will use the same facilities and usually Chinese subcontractors to make their phones. Apple is just following standard industry practice.

That doesn't make it good or acceptable of course but don't see why journalists always go for the Apple angle.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I think we need to get rid of our technology habit.

We need to use things until they are knackered, then recycle them. The cost of constantly updated technology is felt by people, by our wallets and by our planet and it is costing too much.

[saturnvista]

I have a problem with this idea that as long as you're about the same level of depravity/slightly less depraved than everyone else, it's all a much of a muchness and everyone's hands are tied. As consumers, our hands are tied because we have to have access to some version of the product and they're all unethical so that's the end of that conversation. And it shouldn't be. While as a business, apple and others seem to respond when challenged with the message, 'this isn't good enough!': 'but you should see what the other guys are like!' and, later, 'We are trying'. Apple has a vast storehouse of wealth. They're profiting from this situation and therefore they have a moral duty to do as much as they can making best use of resources as imaginatively as possible and to the best of their ability. It is disingenuous and feeble to say 'we're still trying,' when they could, if they wished, turn many aspects of this situation around inside a year.

[saturnvista]

Horrific. I don't care what other companies do (at the moment), the information being given about Apple is shocking, without addressing how well or poorly Apple compares with others. Yes of course the Panorama programme was looking for holes but it found them, didn't it? Easily, as well. I got the impression that perhaps Apple don't know/care what a formality the worker's 'rights' are, and perhaps they have never (understandably) troubled themselves to visit an illegal tin mine, or search for a middle man to question about who he sells his illegal tin to. Why would they?

I can't buy an apple product in good conscience again and I strongly suspect this is true of most alternatives as well.

[EstRusMum]

Agree with PP.

I am also narcissist - own iPhone and iPad. Want to know why? Because my previous version of iPhone was upgrade from Blackberry that stopped working after 4 months , and it still works after almost 3 years. Plus it's much easier to use than any android/Blackberry phone.
I am also certain that other phones are put together exactly the same way.
Although I must admit that nokia production factory near my home in Estonia was treating people fairly well. Better than much richer companies. So respect to nokia for that

[RJnomore]

I've never been aware of apple selling on their ethics, with the exception of the RED products they do ?ith bono - some of the profit from them goes to an aids charity. But it isn't unusual for a large company to have some sort of social responsibility product.

They've always sold on the fact that they are better than the competition.

Blackberry are, sadly, shite. I have one for work. Samsung are happy to steal other peoples patented work and sit it out through lengthy court cases. I don't know much about Motorola but they are hardly market leaders.

Let be honest folks, there isn't much to pick between almost all large companies. Profits come from exploitation somewhere. I'm more annoyed about companies like lush who sell on being ethical while treating their staff like shite.

but then again I'm a narcissist apparently