Right to rent - a legal minefield and potential racism

[ReallyTired]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-30251741

I think its already quite easy for a decent landlord to avoid illegal immigrants by using a referencing company. Its not in a landlord's interest to have a tenant deported and unable to pay the rent. I don't see why further measures are needed.

I am concerned that legal immigrants will find it impossible to find rental accomodiation. It will be simpler for a landlord just to pick the white applicant who has a british passport. It will end up being the 1960s where adverts said "no blacks - no irish".

[TheChandler]

Chunderella Additionally, wherever you stand on the immigration debate, I would think adding another layer of red tape to be dealt with by private individuals is, at the very least, a concept worth critically examining. This is an effective admission that the government can't control immigration in the way they and some of the public might like- and I don't blame them for that, it's simply not possible. So rather than tell the truth about why it's not going to happen, they're simply attempting to hive off responsibility to private individuals engaged in commerce. The buck is being passed to the small businessman, which a huge number of LLs are, because the state can't do the job and is unwilling to explain why.

I agree; I increasingly wonder whether some legislation is actually being drafted by lawyers who have a full grasp of all the laws, including European law, that might apply to it and potentially render it void (no doubt causing immense surprise and astonishment at governmental level); I also wonder how effective any consultation measures prior to drafting are - do private landlords even have a representative body that can be consulted and able to make representations on their behalf? I don't think so - the consultation process itself is steeped in mystery and somewhat obscure.

[TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy]

Seeing as many if not most undocumented immigrants come and gain housing as documented immigrants and then overstay or are as Chunderella discussed are waiting in extant leave while waiting for a decision, I really cannot see the point of this legislation other than to be a pain for landlords and documented migrants and occasionally get some funds. Documented migrants will gain housing and then remain where possible after their documentation expires when the become undocumented immigrants, unless they expect landlords to regularly check for such things. It's all a bit odd and as several have said seems to be just to push away immigrants rather than actually do anything about helping people gain documentation or anything. Sounds like a great way to increase homelessness though.

As a documented non-EU migrant who has spent several hundred pounds and had to prove myself, my relationship, my finances and more to the UK government to get my Leave to Remain visa (and it would be over a grand for me to get citizenship along with testing and such), living with my British husband and our British kids who have no other citizenship, I find it amusing to hear that I am considered such a flight risk by some people.

[ReallyTired]

" Its also placing an incredibly high and disproportionate legal duty to control immigration on those who aren't qualified or necessarily competent to carry out a function of government."

It also requires some quite personal details about a tenant which normally a landlord does not care about. I don't want to do checks on my tenant to see if he is lying.

I am worried that the fall out from this law will be worst than the problem it is trying to solve. My excellent south african tenant has already been the victim of racist from his nasty neighbour. I am worried that the old fart will use this law to try and hound him out of the flat.

"
But basically I think its a pre-election headline grabber designed to steal back a few floating voters from UKIP, and I don't see why landlords should pay the price for that."

Ulimately its law abiding black people who will suffer from this law. Landlords will be scared to take on anyone who poses a risk. Maybe this is what UKIO supporters want.

[TheChandler]

We don't want lots of things BackOnlyBriefly, but not all of us agree on them and not all of them get made into law. Not all law is good law and no law is beyond repeal. The arguments against the law are that it doesn't meet the principle of proportionality - and I don't only mean that the fines are excessive, but that the measure adopted are disproportionate to a needs/benefits analysis. Its also placing an incredibly high and disproportionate legal duty to control immigration on those who aren't qualified or necessarily competent to carry out a function of government.

Personally, what I really don't want is to live in a society where people are turned into snoopers like those in former Communist countries not so long ago who would "inform" on their neighbours, who would then disappear in the middle of the night.

But basically I think its a pre-election headline grabber designed to steal back a few floating voters from UKIP, and I don't see why landlords should pay the price for that.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

TheChandler exactly. So since we don't want LLs helping illegal immigrants to hide and/or exploiting them we pass a law so they can't legally do it.

Any intended or untended consequences to law abiding people must be considered, but I don't see what the argument is against the law itself.

[TheChandler]

BackOnlyBriefly What would happen if you reported a LL who was renting to illegal immigrants now? Is there currently a downside to getting caught? Can't they just act surprised?

Nothing. One of the reasons immigrants come to this country is because we have a legal system that requires laws to be passed by Parliament before we can convict people under them...

[BackOnlyBriefly]

What would happen if you reported a LL who was renting to illegal immigrants now? Is there currently a downside to getting caught? Can't they just act surprised?

Seems to me that burglars don't register as burglars either, but keeping burglary illegal means you can do something to them once they are caught.

[APlaceInTheWinter]

I doubt it will have any impact on exploitation. LLs who know they are renting to illegal immigrants will continue to do so and won't conduct checks.

It just seems like another way for the government to raise funds (by fining LLs) and offer a sop to the anti-immigration crowd.

[PanISAButterfly]

Just how many illegal immigrants, or people without the correct documentation, will be 'caught' from this measure?

Approximately none. IF asked, potential tenants will walk away - into the arms of unscrupulous so called landlords who won't register themselves or any tenants and provide inhuman circumstances whilst pocketing ££££s as the tenant has no right of redress. Nothing short of gangsterism.
It's def. a racists measure and designed to give an anti-immigration 'message' for the next election and line the pockets of people who are/will be Tory or UKIP voters.

[EllaFitzgerald]

Lurking Unfortunately, a birth certificate wouldn't be of any use as being born in a particular country doesn't necessarily make you a national of that country, or give you any legal status there.

[specialsubject]

would it?

I lose track of who has the right to be here.

well, that's ok then. No problem.

the slumlords still won't check or care, though. Useless legislation.

[LurkingHusband]

specialsubject

surely a birth certificate would do to demonstrate nationality ?

[specialsubject]

I rent a place with an agent and the tenant is referenced and ID checked. A passport is the easy way of ID Checking. If a tenant doesn't have one, when this is nationwide ID checking will get pricier.

this is the government pushing things on to the landlords who are of course the root of all evil in this country. The slumlords will ignore and it will have no effect, the rest of us will just have to pay extra. That includes tenants who have every right to be here because they are British citizens, but have never travelled and so don't have a passport. They'll have to stump up unnecessary cash to get one.

as always, regulation in the wrong place, hitting the wrong people.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

Won't this hit those landlords who know they are housing illegal immigrants,but don't care because they can be exploited?

Surely we want to discourage exploitation?

[TheChandler]

Because government can't resist interfering in people's lives when theres not really much need, and making people pay for the privilege of doing it.

And UK Governments cannot really resist changing the law so constantly that a lot of people don't know what it is any more. I say that as a solicitor. Its hard for us to keep up with the rapid legislative changes, so goodness knows how other people manage.

[Greengrow]

Most people will be like bounc particularly in places where there are plenty of tenants.

Same problem with staff - so many politicians have hired cleaners and nannies without checking immigration status.

There's an interesting article in today's FT about the Dutch rented housing market - mostly very very large housing associations rather than private landlords and they have got in a huge mess.
www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0fbd5ad4-7724-11e4-a082-00144feabdc0.html?siteedition=uk#axzz3KdPtiq00

[ConcreteElephant]

Just quickly as I'm about to school run - there are Guidelines for Landlords

[MonstrousRatbag]

Oh, good point, OP, sorry.

[ReallyTired]

"What the government can't do directly (because of EU treaty obligations) it will do indirectly with a thousand small, niggling and ostensibly practical measures that will simply harass foreigners out of moving here?"

EU immigrants have the right to remain. Most unskilled immigrants are EU citizens as its hard for an unskilled non EU immigrant to come to the UK. The law will only affect non EU immigrants.

[MonstrousRatbag]

Sounds like another stupid law that hasn't been thought through...

Or possibly, it has?

What the government can't do directly (because of EU treaty obligations) it will do indirectly with a thousand small, niggling and ostensibly practical measures that will simply harass foreigners out of moving here?

But still no safeguards against unfair practices by recruitment agencies, employers and gangmasters.

[bouncinbean]

I'm a landlord currently with a family from Hungary in my property. I don't particularly see its my responsibility to check a potential future tenants migration status and would be miffed if I have to do this. My property is not in my home town so the hassle of taking passports to get a photocopy and all that palaver - sod it, you're right I probably would prefer to rent to someone that doesn't cause me extra admin. Sounds like another stupid law that hasn't been thought through...

[WorraLiberty]

I know 2 Asian landlords who will only rent to Asian families because "They have money and will always pay the rent on time".

They're quite verbally open about it too, but what can you do?

People will always find a way of doing these things and avoiding the law.

[ReallyTired]

"I wouldn't rent to a non EU migrant as it would be far too easy for them to not pay for months and then go home."

Why would it be more risky renting to a Pole than a South Africian?

One of my tenants is a black south african and he is a brilliant tenant. Surely EU migrants/ UK citizens are just as likely to bugger off and not pay rent. Having a county court judgement against someone does not make money magically appear.

It is not unknown for UK citizens to diliberately get themselves evicted in hope that the council will rehouse them.