To not threaten 5yo DS with the police?

[RedButtonhole]

And how else can I get through to him?

He occassinaly brings things home from school that don't belong to him. Silly things- today it was a mini stack of post-its, before that it was a small digital timer. He doesn't try
to hide it from me at all, I remove the item and make sure he returns it to it's rightful owner (teacher). I make sure to tell him that stealing is wrong, it's not nice to take things that are not our own without asking etc etc. that i upsets people/makes them sad but I don't seem to be getting through. I try not to get shouty or cross because I feel he would be very secretive with me then, I'd rather be in the loop.
en
I don't like to threaten him with "the policeman will come and take you to jail" because:

1. I think children should be happy and comfortable with the police, not teeri

[Homebird8]

I was so embarrassed at the camera incident that when I found out I kept it to myself. I can't imagine how that poor teacher would have felt if she'd known. She was a bit inept but was obviously having a particularly difficult time that session so it wouldn't have been fair to use DS2's espionage to make a point.

I think your home / school strategy sound like a workable solution and he'll gradually grow out of it.

[RedButtonhole]

Well this morning he came downstairs with two plastic soldiers in his hand and asked me if it was ok to take them to school. I gave him lots of praise for asking first and I've told him that he has to ask the teacher if he wants to bring anything home as well. Teacher is aware of the situation and has said she will use his reward chart ar school when he asks but also discourage him from taking anything home so that he gets out of the habit. If that doesn't work we're going to try having a specific "to and from" object and a "home" for it.

He is quite an open little boy and doesn't lie so I think this will be more effective and allow him to learn rather than punishment which I think would just make him more determined to hide things, does that make sense or am I being too soft?

Homebird at the camera thing, it just shows how easily things can slip under the radar

[Homebird8]

Asking him to run things by you before he takes them to school is a great idea and encouraging him to do the same with school things too would help. Then the teacher could either know what he has or support him in choosing to leave it in its 'home' at school.

DS2 once took his camera to school (Year R) and filmed his teacher as she struggled to control the children on the carpet. She never knew but I saw that film when I downloaded his camera and worked out what he'd done. Not something that should have happened. Between us the teacher and I should have been aware of the camera before the filming but I'm not sure how.

Encouraging them to talk with those who care for them at home and school is vital given that frisking them is a bit OTT.

[RedButtonhole]

Thanks math, I think once I have spoken to his teacher and heard her thoughts, I might get "Santa" to leave him a wee present that can live in his bag, maybe something that clips on, or I might let him choose something.

I'll also be encouraging him to ask me before he takes anything from home for school in the meantime- he normally mentions it but hopefully getting him to ask will reinforce the need to do that at other times before taking

[mathanxiety]

You could ask him to ask you first before taking anything from the car. Or if there is is special thing he would like to keep in a pocket of his bag, maybe it could live there permanently. DS loved the idea of his little action figure there hanging on the peg with his bag. I think he imagined it would spring into action if the teacher ever got too stroppy .

[RedButtonhole]

Yes with DS it doesn't really have to be a particular object, just what ever is flavour of the moment at the time.

Usually he sneaks a small car or an octonaut figure in with him, but he has come home having gone to school with random objects like lip balms or a calculator that I think he lifted from the car because he hadn't remembered to bring a toy. I definitely think it's a security thing now that I've thought about how it might work the other way too. I'll see his teacher at pick up tomorrow and hopefully we can have a talk about what to do and she can have a word with DS about not taking anything home from the classroom without asking first.

[mathanxiety]

My DS used to bring a small plastic action figure to school with him in his backpack. It was something he had found while digging in the garden and cleaned off very thoroughly for many hours with an old toothbrush. This item went to school with him for two years. Definitely a security thing.

[RedButtonhole]

Thanks Homebird I hope you're right

[Homebird8]

I think that in a year you'll be dealing with another aspect of his growth. This too shall pass, and as long as you're delivering kindly and corrective messages about growing into a lovely young man all will be well. Just send the things back with a firm but gentle "This belongs at school."

[RedButtonhole]

Yes MrsGeorge I think you may have hit the nail on the head there! He has, from a very young age always taken a small object to nursery, school, daycare or whatever, and in fact used to get upset if he couldn't bring it with him (they were not allowed to bring things from home to nursery unless they left it outside in a tray) and he used to try and sneak things in... maybe this is a similar thing? The objects don't seem to be anything he particularly wants or is interested in- he hasn't talked about them at home since he first produced them. I might have a chat to his primary 1 teacher and headteacher (she worked quite closely with him in nursery) and see what they think. Thankyou!

mathanxiety Thankyou, your post is so helpful. I'll use some.of your suggestions to give him a better idea of "mine" and "not mine" and hopefully this will help him understand what is appropriate to bring home from school and what has to stay there and vice versa.

Homebird He has done it in a shop before but I made him take the object back and say sorry and both the shop assistant and I were gentle but firm with him about not taking things from shops without paying and he hasn't done it in a shop since. That's where what MrsGeorge was saying makes sense to me now- not that I'm trying to downplay what's happening, but I don't think he's really stealing because he wants the object, he just wants any object to take home, it's always been a bit of a security thing with him I think.

[MrsGeorgeMichael]

i give up re spelling and grammar!
but hopefully you get the jist
i am away back to bed!

[MrsGeorgeMichael]

OP this is a developmental "thing". I think its referred to as the child bringing home a "transitional object" from school to home (i bet he brings something from home to school, but you don't call that stealing iykwim.

mine oldest did it until he was about 6 - it was always something small and he took it back in the next day

have you chatted to the teacher (she might explain it better than me :) )

btw i am assuming he's not doing this in ASDA!

[Homebird8]

When DS took something from a shop and we returned it together (he was about 2.5) the lady was lovely. She quite calmly and lovingly said to him that she could see that he was a clever boy and that she needed his help. It was his job to make sure that the shop's things stayed in the shop where they could sell them to customers. He accepted the responsibility very seriously and AFAIK never did it again.

I like the pocket money approach but this lovely lady's idea might help too if adapted to the situation and the age of your DS.

I agree about the police. It can get a bit like crying wolf and weakens his faith in the police to help him if they are used as a threat.

Well done. You sound lovely and your son will turn out just fine.

[mathanxiety]

Understanding that it's objectively wrong takes a few years from the point he is at right now.

Don't panic! It takes a while to master impulse control and then to come to the level of understanding that will keep him from pocketing things. Just keep on plugging away.

[mathanxiety]

You could try to assess where he is in terms of appreciating the difference between 'mine' and 'not mine' when you see he has some item in his possession that you know comes from school. It may well be that he really hasn't yet got to the stage where he can understand this major difference. He really is very young still.

He is only at the start of a process (of understanding this difference between mine and yours) that he should have completed by age 7. If you ask him whose post-it notes these are and he says they are his, then you can gently probe and find out how they came to be his since he did not buy them and you did not give them to him. Just ask for assessment purposes initially, and you can interject the comment that perhaps he wishes an item was his but it isn't really his just because he wishes it. Remember though that children his age believe in Santa and magic.

Once he gets the idea that things he buys or things you give him are his (through using a little money to buy things he fancies, without comment from you even if you think he is choosing rubbish) then you can ask him who owns various things at home, his toys or your wooden spoons or dad's hat or the cat's bowl, etc. Gradually he will develop an understanding. Also, don't force him to share things that he owns, and if he asks for things that another child doesn't want to share when playing, help him to accept that 'no' answer and explain that everyone has a right to decide not to give, and while he is disappointed, he might prefer not to share or give too, one day.

Try to not make remarks about lovely things that other people have. Make sure you talk up your own stuff and his. Don't disparage other people's possessions, just don't bring up the topic. You never know how small children are interpreting or comparing when you talk about things other people have.

[RedButtonhole]

Yes at 5 he knows the role of the police is to help people and keep them safe- I don't think I need to tarnish that view with threats of them taking him away from me and locking him in jail, it's heavy handed and idiotic to use the police to threaten children.

I punish him by removal of treats and privelages such as trips out or screen time. He also gets no stickers on his reward chart if he steals.

Where did I say I told him the teacher was crying over post it notes? I've explained to him that people get upset when their belonfings are stolen- is that not the truth?

I think I'm going to make his reward chart more pocket money orientated- so he'll get none for the day if he steals, but if he is generally well behaved and also does not steal he will have money to choose what he likes.

I still think it will take more than that to get through to him though, I would like him to learn that it's wrong not just forget to steal because he can buy his own things if that makes sense?

[marnia68]

I am sure if he is 5 years old , the kid knows by now what teh role of the police is.I think you have to take the 'stealing is wrong and will be punished stance'
How are you punishing him for thieving?
It is a bit disingenuous to make him think his teacher is weeping about the theft of post-it notes.

[SnowSpot]

Ghostspirit - I didn't link the stealing directly to any 'reward'. I just told my DD (and did this too for my DS at the same time so it didn't look like I was favouring anyone - he was only 18 months!) that we needed to start doing pocket money as she was now a big girl. I did link it in with getting ready in the morning.

I just think that once she was allowed to choose some little treats for herself, suddenly the desire to steal went. I guess though, you could dock pocket money if they did steal though...

[ghostspirit]

i dont think the pocket money thing is such a good idea. i think its rewarding for not stealing when should not be doing it in the first place. saying that but if it works maybe its not doing any harm.

my son stole from a shop once i noticed when we got out. i made him take it back and say sorry. it never happend again.

few weeks back when i was in my local shop we were at the till and 4 year old said mummy we can just take it we dont need to pay said it infront of shop keeper. so clearly she does not know what any of it means.

[mypoorbottee]

A visit from a community policeman for a "talk" works wonders.

Polter: Searching his bag and rewarding him for not having stolen property in it is a ridiculous idea. That just ends up rewarding for being able to hide his loot better.

[motherofmonster]

The pocket money is a good idea.
I had the same issue with ds when he was little. And i know it sounds cruel but in the end i took something of his (his favourite teddy) and hid it on the wardrobe. He was looking for it, getting upset when i said oh dear, perhaps someone took it. He was upset as it was his. It seemed to get the message across. We had a chat about how he felt , and that that is how someone would feel when he took something that didn't belong to him. After we had talked he got teddy back.
Now before i get flamed and burnt at the stake, this wont work for all kids as up to a certain point empathy eludes alot of kids. So you have to use your judgement

[SaucyJack]

Thirding the pocket money idea.

DD1 used to pilfer sweets from shops. I would give her a bollocking and made her take them back but the thing that stopped it was me getting the stick out of my arse over the evils of sugar and just letting her choose some sweets to buy every now and then.

[ReggieJones]

Is there a reward system already at place at home or at school that can be used to deal with this?