To not vaccinate my children against flu this winter?

[Isseyesque]

We have been offered flu jabs for DDs age 2 and 4. Neither have any respiratory/asthma type issues, and generally very good health (have been very fortunate in that to date they have rarely gotten ill and never seriously, not been on antibiotics etc).

AIBU not to vaccinate them as they don't appear to be high risk? My understanding is that flu is most dangerous to people with weak immune and weak respiratory problems. If they do get it, they'll be unwell but ok, and develop some resistance/ resilience etc.

However, I'm now wavering as someone said they heard on the radio that it recommended small children DO get immunised as it will reduce the spread of flu and therefore be better for others who are more compromised. I hadn't considered that previously, not sure what to do now.

[mymorningbeautyroutine]

My2cents - really? You had flu every year? And one year twice in a month? I dn't think that's even possible. Could it have been just a bad cold?.?

[Della1]

I don't understand why you wouldn't vaccinate. Some children and adults are immunosuppressant. Vaccination protects your children from being ill and stops it spreading, possibly to people who are high risk. I honestly can't understand people who don't vaccinate.

[mathanxiety]

Retreat - no surprise the outbreak of WP was at a Steiner school.

People are suggesting that 'they get it wrong' and that therefore there is no point in getting vaccinated, and that is a pity.

"The science is missing and so making an informed decision is very difficult." This is simply not true.

Same goes for the claptrap about flu vaccinations being all about marketing.

[Purplemeddler]

Not RTFT but OP you are not U.

I was reading an article in the Times earlier this week (written by a GP) who has the jab himself because he works for the NHS and gets it for free, but was less sure whether it's worth having for the rest of us. He said that it was a bit of a heresy to say it!

Unfortunately the Times has its articles behind a paywall but you could potentially tweet Dr Mark Porter and ask him if there's any chance of getting the Times to make it free.

I don't think it's side effects that are the issue, it's just the fact that they have to predict the strain and if they get it wrong, it's not very effective, if at all. I have never bothered, DH gets it through work but he hasn't bothered for the last few years.

According to Mark Porter, Public Health England estimate effectiveness of last year's vaccine was just 40% across all ages, and close to 0% (useless) in over 65s.

[m0therofdragons]

US data is contradictory to what was found in the U.K. Canada and France

[ForgivenessIsDivine]

GeekOne.. I also worked in the Pharma industry. Since 2014, the US have deemed the nasal vaccine to be ineffective.. The science does not show that it is effective....

'ACIP is a panel of immunization experts that advises the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). This ACIP vote is based on data showing poor or relatively lower effectiveness of LAIV from 2013 through 2016.

In late May, preliminary data on the effectiveness of LAIV among children 2 years through 17 years during 2015-2016 season became available from the U.S. Influenza Vaccine Effectiveness Network. That data showed the estimate for LAIV VE among study participants in that age group against any flu virus was 3 percent (with a 95 percent Confidence Interval (CI) of -49 percent to 37 percent). This 3 percent estimate means no protective benefit could be measured. In comparison, IIV (flu shots) had a VE estimate of 63 percent (with a 95 percent CI of 52 percent to 72 percent) against any flu virus among children 2 years through 17 years. Other (non-CDC) studies support the conclusion that LAIV worked less well than IIV this season. The data from 2015-2016 follows two previous seasons (2013-2014 and 2014-2015) showing poor and/or lower than expected vaccine effectiveness (VE) for LAIV.'

[sunseptember]

If dd has slight cold can she have spray

[BubblesBubblesBubbles]

Both dc will have the nasal spray. I normally need lots of convincing on vaccines (dc2 nearly died from one) but given the history with asthma I'd rather not take any risks.

[geekone]

forgivness that statement is from 2014 we now have 3 years of scientific data which shows that statement had no substance. Hundreds of thousands of school children have had the vaccine with no ill effects. You cannot clinical trial a drug for kids or pregnant women. I work in the pharmaceutical industry I didn't have the swine flu jab in 2010 when pg as the data wasn't there at the time but I would now if pregnant and offered as there is data available it is the same for these children vaccines

[m0therofdragons]

For context I've spent about 2.5 hours today reading Public Health England and NHS reports on this including the data from our hospital where we had to close a ward due to flu for the first time in the hospital's history last winter and the 18 year old healthy young man who died of flu in our icu. I'm a little bit passionate and truly disturbed by lies I've read on fb parenting groups against the vaccine.

[m0therofdragons]

The strain accuracy is not always precise but they won't know the success until 6months' time. In 2025/16 it was not successful in the USA but it was in the UK, Canada and France. It isn't effective on the strain in Australia but we don't yet know if that will be a problem here as strains change.
The side effects are rare and great ormond street doctors advise people to have it.

[Italiangreyhound]

StarUtopia would you be able to link to examples of the flu nasal spray causing adverse effects, please?

[StarUtopia]

mother It is NOT shown to be safe. Adverse reactions to the flu nasal spray are well documented.

Also worth noting that the vaccine only protects you if they get the strain of flu correct - which they haven't this year. So you are no more protected with the vaccine than without.

[retreatwhispering]

Forgiveness, my initial comment re. family history was responding to a PP upthread who rubbished all vaccinations. I see that your response to my response (!) was specific to flu. We're talking at cross purposes.

[m0therofdragons]

Last year 3 healthy dc in the U.K., who qualified for the vaccine but parents chose not to, died. One was a 5 yo girl near us. I have 3dc and 2 are entitled to the vaccine (both just turned 6). I couldn't live with myself knowing I could have prevented it. It's be shown to be safe so why there's so much discussion and misinformation baffles me. Truly concerning. The UK is very different to the USA and "marketing" vaccines not a thing.

[ForgivenessIsDivine]

I thought we were talking about flu.... where have I mentioned polio or whooping cough????

Tom Jefferson, author of a Cochrane Review on Vaccines for Prevention of Influenza in healthy children, said in 2014 that he would not recommend the nasal spray vaccine because the trials understate possible harm. "Influenza vaccines are about marketing and not science," he said. "We have few trials, and masses of very poor quality observational evidence," he said. "We have presented evidence of considerable reporting bias, which governments continue to ignore. The science is missing and so making an informed decision is very difficult."

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/oct/05/government-wrong-nasal-spray-vaccine

[retreatwhispering]

Forgiveness
'Retreat... the answer is hygiene, sanitation and nutrition.....'

For polio? Really? Whooping cough?

I have experienced a whooping cough outbreak. FWIW, a large cohort of clean living kids at a Steiner school. There were hospitalisations and literally months of illness for the kids involved. If only those parents had fed their children properly and done a bit more housework, eh?

[TinselTwins]

"achey ill viruses"

[TinselTwins]

I do agree with a PM who questioned what people self diagnose as flu

I've only ever had flu once
I've had other achey I'll cruises

Flu is not curl up on the sofa with a hot drink feeling sorry for yourself ill.

Flu is not eating or drinking to the point of clinical dehydration, being unable to move from bed even if you need something, struggling to breath and wondering if it's ambulance time. I lost a stone in a week!

[Italiangreyhound]

BeALert I am so sorry to hear about your friend. My friend also died at Christmas, during the holidays at uni, but from a different illness. It was very sad.

[Blahblahboo]

I've never had a flu vaccine and I've never had the flu in over 13 years. Also you might want to research vaccine shedding, because vaccines spread illness stop stop it. Here immunity is a load of rubbish

[raviolidreaming]

WaxyBean are you vaccinating your other children? If not, and given you're relying on herd immunity for your mother and son, I guess it's reasonable to expect people not to bother if they have nobody close to them at risk.

[BeALert]

One of of my best friends at uni died of flu age 18. He went home for Christmas and never came back :-(

[EveryoneTalkAboutPopMusic]

When I was in hospital with complications from the flu about 5 people died on my ward in a week. All were fit and healthy people in their 20s.

[WindyWednesday]

So can anyone tell me if the flu strains in this years vaccine are the ones that are prevalent this year in Australia?

As I have said, in Australia children are not given the flu vaccine which may be one reason why the virus has spread.

All my family in Australia have had the flu this year. They are all asthmatics and were fine after a few days.