AIBU to think that churchyards are the most wheelchair unfriendly places ever and must contravene the disability discrimination Act or something?

[gremlindolphin]

Having just dragged my Mum in her wheelchair over rough grass, sinking in places and then had to do an obstacle course round other headstones to get her close to my Dad's, I am really cross!

I know that there is limited space and money, its a rural churchyard so its rural-ness it part of its charm but is it too much to ask for a path every now and again?

Surely a significant amount of visitors to graves must be elderly people? It makes me so cross on Mum's behalf that something she feels is important is so difficult for her (and exhausting for me.)

Any thoughts?

[dippydora69]

Mintymojito,

There used to be a lovely little stone statuette figure on my relation's grave, which was stolen.

There are some crappy people around.

[dippydora69]

I note you didn't apologise for your somewhat callous attitude.
Maybe my post was slightly callous, but at least I wasn't rude:-

Oh, and that's complete nonsense about wooden posts on gravestones..
I wouldn't dream of telling somebody their post is complete nonsense which is plain ignorant.

It isn't everywhere, which was the impression you gave.
A LOT of districts have/them, (staked graves) due to over-zealous health & safety. So stop nit-picking over trivial details.

[Dawndonnaagain]

Dippy 1) It isn't everywhere, which was the impression you gave.
2) I note you didn't apologise for your somewhat callous attitude. Did you join just so that you could bang this particular drum?

[GREYCROW]

I paid a lot of money for the plot for my daughter. I have to say that all of the things people have complained about occurred to me. So our beautiful daughter is rested beneath a gravestone that is on an easily accessible path.

Doesn't stop people climbing all over it, throwing litter on it or defacing the headstone or things we have laid for her on it.

Sometimes I wish we had chosen one of the ones further away.

[dippydora69]

Oh, and that's complete nonsense about wooden posts on gravestones.

Dawn, here's another example of how you DO get posts on gravestones, it's what the article says, in case the link didn't work:

In recent times many graveyards have been blighted by swathes of gravestones supported by wooden stakes with large yellow stickers instructing the visitor of its imminent danger and need of repair. For many relatives this is the first they have learnt that their family gravestone has failed a topple test and they are left to foot the bill to put right the damage. This has been a very distressing and expensive situation for many people costing them an average of £200.

[dippydora69]

Dawndonnaagain, here's another example of some of my 'complete nonsense' as you nicely put it.

www.johnmannmp.com/topple_testing_mp_made_redundant

[dippydora69]

Oh, and that's complete nonsense about wooden posts on gravestones.

I think you will find it ISN'T.
It's known as Staking. And those that aren't staked are often laid flat.
So in some graveyards you have a combination of staked and laid flat gravestones. Looks really nice not

Just two examples, but there are many more.

.news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7071772.stm

www.whitehavennews.co.uk/news/grief-as-workers-topple-gravestones-1.1096692

[SisterMoonshine]

I think there is "better planning from now on"
Like I say, the crematorium has a fully accessible memorial area.
We know now, that there is just not the capacity for everyone to be buried.

Sadly, better planning is not in time for your mum's visits though.

[hamptoncourt]

I know it doesn't help you OP but for what it is worth, any NEW burial plots must have disabled access.

[OfaFrenchMind]

YABU...
Or you could ask to desecrate the graves of people buried there, to make a nice wide path... there is not easy or win-win solution here. This happens sometimes.

[Dawndonnaagain]

dippy Your response is a little over the top, particulary when considering (which you obviously did'nt) this is a distressed daughter taking her mother to visit the grave of her father/husband.

Oh, and that's complete nonsense about wooden posts on gravestones.

Gremlin Dd is a wheelchair user. I do think things are getting better. I suspect small rural churchyards there is little that can be done. Certainly though, the larger municipal ones are better. I do agree that in the 21st Century we should be considering all members of society.

[fluffyraggies]

But grass avenues will get soft and sinky and lumpy just as the grass you have encountered is today OP, sadly. An obstacle course of headstones is going to be par for the course in a grave yard surely?

I'm sorry you had this struggle with your mum's wheelchair, but i honestly don't think there is going to be much the vicar can do about the grave yard. Affording the grass to be cut before it gets to knee height at our local church is about as good as it gets theses days. They did put a set of stepsinto a very steep grass bank a couple of years ago, (which previously mum and i had to virtually skid down when it was wet, in order to get to my dads urn burial spot), but that small set of steps took fundraising to pay for.

[ellenjames]

YABU

[dippydora69]

YABU

It's bad enough they have completely desecrated the charm of a lot of beautiful churchyards by putting up wooden posts to support a lot of gravestones.
All because some parent let their child climb on a gravestone and it toppled.

Now, they test EVERY gravestone, and if its even slightly leaning (which in the past leant to it's charm), they shove a great big ugly lump of wood behind it - to make it safer.

Now, you want them to put concrete paths in all over the place?

(why don't we just fence off the whole of the SEA while we're at it, in case somebody falls in).
Or lets spoil the natural woodlands by putting concrete paths between the trees.

[madeofkent]

I suspect the only reply would be a hollow laugh.

I broke my foot in Feock churchyard. Steep and rocky and overcrowded, but very picturesque. The path down the grave was so narrow, between the headstones, and my SiL was wanting to walk side by side. It had been strimmed but the very edges were rocky and uneven so had been left - and I stepped into a rabbit hole, a really deep one and twisted and broke my foot. The hearse bringing my aunt down had only managed to get down halfway, but they gave me a lift back up to the road...

But it's beautiful, I wouldn't change it for the world. I don't want churchyards to be manicured and straight-pathed. Despite breaking my foot. Also, while I was there, I took loads of photos so that a cousin who is disabled could see them. That was our solution, we wouldn't dream of depriving my aunt of her beautiful and atmospheric resting place.

[gremlindolphin]

Thank you for all your responses especially those who understand!

It is difficult to explain the actual layout without showing you - I am not suggesting immaculate tarmac paths everywhere, just grass avenues every now and again in the bit of the graveyard that is currently being used so you can at least get a wheelchair near to a grave. The Older part of the graveyard has small tarmac paths in place already which help.

Manicinsomniac I think you hit the nail on the head - is it acceptable in 21st Cent to not be thinking about people with mobility issues? I am not talking about the ancient graves but just better planning from now on.

I am a pragmatic optimist and I don't think that there is anywhere that my Mum should automatically not be able to go if she wants to just because she had an illness that means she can't walk anymore.

I have emailed the Vicar so will see where we get to with it.


xx

[WeirdCatLady]

If this is going to be a regular trip for your mom maybe look into the FreeWheel wheelchair attachment. It is a central mounted large wheel which lifts the front two small casters off the ground and makes it a heck of a lot easier to go off road. They're about £400 but worth every penny. HTH.

[Alisvolatpropiis]

Yabu I'm afraid.

[Nibledbyducks]

As it seems impracticle to lay paths, perhaps suggest fund raising for a wheelchair designed for rough terrain to be available for use of disabled visitors?

[HeySoulSister]

Where do you propose the money to do this should come from?

[BikeRunSki]

I am sorry you've had a hard day, but I think what you're suggesting comes under Building Regulations Part M, and they only came in late 1999/early 2000.

But I agree with pp who've suggested the Parish Council would welcome a contribution to do the work required, but it may just not be possible in an old graveyard.

[ElephantsNeverForgive]

I agree that sadly what you are asking is impossible in old grave yards (our local cemetery is pretty good).

Just how rough and awkward are church yard is was made very clear by a very thoughtless Vicar.

Funeral of my old music teacher, surprisingly few mourners, Son, his partner, us (we lived almost next door) and a few old women.

Beautiful hot day, vicar obviously want to be somewhere else. He raced through the service and almost ran to the grave side. He pretty much had the coffin in the hole before the oldest ladies had got across the uneven ground.

[olgaga]

I've walked through mud to lay flowers on graves, and yes we weren't able to get MIL in her wheelchair anywhere close.

I'm sure it gave your muscles an unwelcome workout, but I've never been to a cemetary where every grave is easily accessible - let alone an old rural church graveyard!

Honestly - think about it!

[PiperIsOrange]

Omg the comments on this thread are harsh.

Your mum will alway grieve and to many visiting the place of rest helps with that.

I suspect nothing can be done, but a bit of sensitivity wouldn't go amiss.