To take kids out of school in term time?

[AtSea1979]

I know this has probably been done to death but couldn't find it.
2 DC, yr 1 & 5.
Want to take them out for a week in November, offer came up for holiday, not exceptional circumstance. Not available in half term.

[ilovesooty]

At present the rules (which seem inconsistently applied geographically) mean that the parent of a child attending a family funeral for a day are fined (when imo they shouldn't be) the same as a parent who pulls their child out of school for a week or two for a cheap holiday with no extenuating circumstances-such as employment restrictions.

It's time the fines reflected
this so that such piss taking wouldn't be worth it. If £60 per child, per parent, per day is what it takes, bring it on. Parents like these-simply cause difficulties for those dealing with unavoidable or distressing family events and asking to take their children out of school.

[EmeraldLion]

In 30+ years of teaching, with one exception, all the students whose parents took them out of school in term time underachieved. Most of them were doing so before they took them out. All, without exception did not hand in homework on time/ at all. All, without exception, were poor in completing class work

I find this unbelievable astonishing.

I'm not a teacher so only have anecdotal experience. And my eldest is only 6 so not a great deal at that.

But in the two years my eldest has been in ft education, lots of his classmates have had term time holidays. At both ends of the achievement spectrum. Both ds1 and his best friend have had a week out in term time (last year) and they're the two highest achievers in the class. Ds1 has never missed or been late with homework in his life.

In 30 years, if you have never experienced a committed high-achiever having time out of school in term time, I can only assume you have taught only in generally low-achieving schools tbh.

[Primrose123]

In 30+ years of teaching, with one exception, all the students whose parents took them out of school in term time underachieved. Most of them were doing so before they took them out. All, without exception did not hand in homework on time/ at all. All, without exception, were poor in completing class work

I missed this earlier. We took our DCs out of school a few times while they were in primary school. They were both over-achievers. They always handed homework in on time, and always completed classwork. When we went to parents' evenings the teachers praised them and were very happy about their progress, attitude etc.

[wonkylegs]

Your choice.
Personally it's not acceptable. We tell kids they can't pick and choose when they go to school, I think it's confusing if you go changing that just because it suits you. It is also disruptive for teaching but for me it's mostly the former issue with especially with younger kids who are only learning what rules are.
My SIL doesn't agree & thinks we are mean for 'ruining' family holidays by refusing to come in term time but we feel it's important.

[DaisyFlowerChain]

YABU, if you don't like the rules then home educate or go private where they don't care if you don't turn up.

School is important, not a good lesson to teach children that it can be skipped for something more fun. Little wonder so many young adults take the day of work for the slightest thing.

[Goldmandra]

In 30+ years of teaching, with one exception, all the students whose parents took them out of school in term time underachieved. Most of them were doing so before they took them out. All, without exception did not hand in homework on time/ at all. All, without exception, were poor in completing class work.

I think that may say more about teachers who make self fulfilling prophecies than it does about the effect of term time holidays on pupils' achievement.

[hoobypickypicky]

YANBU. Go ahead, have a great time. Claim illness rather than tell the truth.

Ignore the hysteria.

If the occasional week off for a holiday was as bad as some would like us to believe every child who's ever been absent due to measles, chicken pox, a broken limb or what have you would be screwed too.

[Bunbaker]

"Claim illness rather than tell the truth."

I don't think that's a good idea. Someone is bound to let the cat out of the bad. I also think that lying is a really bad example to set your children.

[hoobypickypicky]

I'd call it challenging a draconian and unreasonable system rather than lying, Bunbaker.

[ilovesooty]

Claim illness rather than tell the truth

Another one.

Do you think it's ok to lie to get out of going to work as well?

No wonder parents of children with genuine illness are being hassled for sick notes when there are people advocating this kind of dishonesty. I feel desperately sorry for parents of chronically sick children who are affected by selfishness and fraudulent behaviour like this.

[PenisesAreNotPink]

It's a really bad idea to encourage children to lie.

How can you get children that young to cope with the moral variability of lying - they're your morals, you're the one deciding what's a good and what's a bad lie - not the child. The child just ends up confused and possibly distressed at having to keep secrets from teacher and class mates.

[Bunbaker]

Exactly sooty.

DD has an autimmune condition and has missed a fair amount of school. I have had the letter from school querying her attendance record. Parents who think it is ok to lie about going on holiday are just taking the p*ss.

[hoobypickypicky]

The parent who lies isn't the person/s who demand the sick notes, sooty, that'll be the school and LA. The parent isn't responsible for the decisions made by schools, local authorities or governments.

You'd have to give me a far more specific question for me to be able to tell you whether or not I'd lie to a hypothetical employer as well.

[ilovesooty]

I think that attitude stinks hooby

In fact I'd like to see fines at least doubled for lying parents. They're letting their own children down and shitting on the parents of children with health conditions. Blaming the system is a pathetic and weak excuse. There wouldn't be so much emphasis on asking for sick notes if dishonest parents didn't screw the system.

[Bunbaker]

I know someone who always took her children out of school. One year she took her DD out the week before the KS2 SATS and her son the week before his GCSEs. In both cases the children underachieved massively.

[Bunbaker]

Very true sooty

[hoobypickypicky]

"The state do not own your children but they do provide you with a free education for your children."

Not so, soverylucky.

We pay for state education out of our taxes.

[hoobypickypicky]

It's not "blaming the system", sooty, it's a fact. The parents do not decide state education policy or local authority practice and cannot be held accountable for the actions and decisions of others.

You may think that my attitude stinks. That's fine. It's not changing, but that's fine. :)

[ilovesooty]

We pay for state education out of our taxes

Yes, those with employers do. And those employed people include the teachers whose work you think it's fine to disrespect.

[ilovesooty]

The schools and teachers don't make the rules either. But if you think that confusing children's moral compass and screwing over people with sick children is fine, you can of course just get on with it.

And with that attitude, I'm rather relieved to hear any employer you have is hypothetical.

[hoobypickypicky]

"We pay for state education out of our taxes"

"Yes, those with employers do"
"And with that attitude, I'm rather relieved to hear any employer you have is hypothetical.



sooty, I work and pay my taxes, TYVM.

[ilovesooty]

Right, I'll ask you again then. You said "hypothetical employer" which was misleading. Would you call in sick when you weren't and lie to your employer? For example if you wouldn't get paid otherwise? It's just as-dishonest as what you propose.

[ilovesooty]

And if your lies also impacted on your more honest employees who might be genuinely sick?

[hoobypickypicky]

sooty, I wasn't misleading. I just didn't divulge.

There's a difference between the employee/employer and the parent/state relationship.

As an employee John Smith is paid by his employer for the service he provides.

(Taxpaying) John Smith pays the state to provide the educational service.

As a base premise there's firmer ground to defend lying to the person you're paying for a service when you're not aiming to gain additional funds from them than it is to defend lying to the person who pays you with the intention of making financial gain from them.

I don't think we'll agree on this so there's not much point in going in circles.

AtSea, check what it's going to cost you in terms of fines if you decide upon that route and if you go ahead, have a good holiday.