To raise concerns to SS re: family member

[OldCatLady]

Changed a few details to not be recognisable. Sorry for the long post.

But background: family member 'Emma' has two children. She had her first fairly young, didn't know what she was doing, SS got involved, but family stepped in and all was fine. DS1 is disabled due to early neglect (I don't know specifically what's wrong with him but is statemented, is 7 and is more like a 3 year old). Therefore they get disability living allowance and carers allowance etc. DS2 is 3 and although not developing as he should, is not disabled, just a little slow. Neither parent works, live in council flat. You get the picture.

I have a few concerns and I'm not sure if I should report them or just keep my nose out. I know that dad hits the kids, and that they are scared of him, not as in punches or kicks them, but enough to hurt and scare them, and is verbally aggressive too. They get a lot of benefits for DS1 though none of it is being spent on him. They give a lot to Emma's mum who is also on benefits but a lot less than them. A lot seems to be spent on clothes, video games, nights out for parents. The kids are left to their own devices most of the time, no stimulation, no days out, no beneficial toys, they eat so badly (junk food 24/7), no bed times, no discipline, always wearing dirty clothes etc.

I feel so sorry for the kids but I feel like I'm being really pathetic in reporting this? What do you think?

[ilovechristmas1]

well done op

i know this may be very hard for you to do but you really are thinking of those children and hopefully a better future for them,maybe for all the family

good luck

[OldCatLady]

Thank you everyone for your opinions. I have come to the conclusion I really do need to report this - I can't imagine how awful it would be if something bad happened to the kids. Prevention is the best option I believe...

And to Float, what an absurd view you have. I care about the children a hell of a lot but I am simply not in a position to take them on. I work very long hours, travel with work, do not have the room, but fostering IS something I plan to do in the future (when I do have time and the room) so please do not judge and tell me I'm making it the states problem. If I could take him on I would. And as I said family (me included) helped out in early years to stop him going into emergency foster care, none of us were paid for this.

I will come up with a list of the problems I have noticed within the family and report them to SS as factually as possible. It's hard but I know it's the right thing.

[crispandfruity]

Tethersend, fabulous posts.

Yes, the threshold at which children are removed is high. However in my experience it results in a better outcome for children and young people than being left in chaotic and dangerous home environments.

With regard to the OP, yes report. If 'emma' struggled to parent a baby then she will struggle to parent 2 children with additional needs. She will need a lot of support. I'm amazed she came off their radar.

Make the call.

[ColdTeaAgain]

Bloody hell Float children are hardly taken into care lightly, it's the last resort or to protect them from harm. Yes it can be traumatic for them but they would of had to of been in a very bad place for it to happen so I really can't see how they are worse off ultimately.

Of course people should report child abuse or neglect regardless of whether they would ever take in a child themselves. They are still helping to protect a child and that's what matters!

[Lagoonablue]

You are a charmer aren't you Float.

We are not talking about other kids we are talking about particular kids so your comment about finding some to report to childrens services is facetious.

A family member reporting concerns will be taken just as seriously as a neighbour.

[tethersend]

"It doesn't often happen that being taken into care means a better upbringing"

Actually, I take issue with this. It does, it absolutely does often happen. More often than not, IME. This does not mean that being taken into care is free of trauma for children, but to say that it is 'often' worse than being left in an abusive situation is just plain wrong.

[tethersend]

And Devora's point is excellent; reporting concerns does not mean that children are removed. The threshold for removing children from home is pretty high.

[tethersend]

I think that's a dangerous view, Float.

I'm an advisory teacher for children in care, and I do agree that being taken into care and being in care is often very traumatic for children- however I disagree that it is 'often' worse to be taken into care than to be left in an abusive or neglectful home. The vast majority of the children I work with are much, much better off where they are. Some would be in a much better position if they had been removed earlier.

I think that there is a problem with a lack of foster carers, and a greater lack of skilled foster carers, but it think that this would be addressed by treating FCs as salaried professionals, paying and training them as such and having higher expectations of them.

Family members stepping in is sometimes the best option for children who are removed from their parents- but sometimes they are not, and I think it is wrong to suggest that the problems we have with the care system and trauma-experienced children with significant needs would be solved by well-meaning relatives.

It's even more wrong to encourage people not to report concerns unless they feel able to step in and deal with the situation themselves- this could mean that concerns go uninvestigated and abuse continues, or that children are harmed even more by well meaning family members who are unable to meet their needs.

[Devora]

I think it's really dangerous to set the bar for reporting at, "When you know without doubt that the child will have a better life with a new family". Because it's really hard to ever know that. It sounds as though 'Emma' did much better with SS support and that support was withdrawn prematurely. The end result of OP reporting may not be the children getting taken into care - it might be increased support for Emma and the whole family. Which would be a good thing, surely.

[FloatIsRechargedNow]

Because OP doesn't live nearby - just drops in to the 'picture' occasionally. So if she does "Report" then the local SS are hardly likely to take her seriously anyway. Try that 'reporting conversation' in your head if you're unsure.

I'm sure there's some "poor bloody kids" near you if you're that worried.

[Lagoonablue]

The child won't necessarily be taken into care though. There is other stuff to be done. I cannot help but wonder though WHY OP has not yet told childrens services about her concerns.

Poor bloody kids.

[ilovechristmas1]

report op

after the last few horrific cases of children dying at their parents hands it has really made me realise that some do slip through the net,please dont turn a blind eye like some do

it dosent sound great at all

if all is ok then all fine,if there is not you have saved 2 children living a miserable and possibly dangerous future

i know i may sound im being OTT but i feel this needs reporting especially the past issues

[FloatIsRechargedNow]

Hi tethers my point is that so many people are happy to suggest 'Report' without thinking through the consequences. It doesn't often happen that being taken into care means a better upbringing, and it can often mean worse. Much worse.

I'm also balancing that point out with the fact that there's a huge shortage of foster carers out there. So if a child is taken into care it doesn't mean that he/she will go to a 'caring' family and even if so the child can/most likely will be moved on.

So if you say "Report" with a view that the child would receive better care elsewhere, then consider too where this elsewhere might be.

From a point of view concerned with a close relative, I would step in rather than the child enter the care system. It would be difficult but it would be preferable for all. I would do the same for a close friend.

I wish I could do it for all children.

[tethersend]

Float, I'm not sure what your point is here.

Are you saying that nobody should report concerns about children unless they are prepared to take in the child themselves?

Or have I got that wrong?

[FloatIsRechargedNow]

Bump waiting for those "Report OP" MNers who can also describe their caring role in society......Ooooh you've all gone now.

Report to SS=Care=Foster Family=Someone Else not You.

And they wonder why the State hands out money? It's because there aren't enough people who actually give a shit.

[FloatIsRechargedNow]

Thought as much -so many posters easily suggest reporting to SS but won't consider stepping in themselves. Even when it's their own family.

If anything, with the amount of 'Reporters' suggested on here, you would think SS would be overwhelmed by offers from families wanting to help.

Easy to appear to 'care' without really caring at all.

[FloatIsRechargedNow]

As you care so much about this family and have even considered that ds1 might be taken into care, if this eventuality arises might it be possible that you could step in to care for him? You might even get some 'benefits' to help you to do this. SS appear overwhelmed with needy cases and such a shortage of paid foster carers might it be something you would do? Or is it just the state's problem?

[tearsofrobertsmith]

Why do you have to ask? You have concerns- does it even matter what strangers on the net think? If we all said "nah, sounds fine." Would you honestly not report this family?

[nocoolnamesleft]

Based on the update, my opinion has changed. From call social services, to definitely call social services. With help, this could still be turned around. Without help...I would be very very worried.

[ColdTeaAgain]

As I said when you started this thread, it sounds like the whole family need a lot of support which they aren't getting.

Yes it does sound like they have slipped through the net from what you have described.

Neglect comes in many forms and it doesn't have to be intentional to warrant reporting it.

Understand that it's difficult if it's family but the children must come first....you need to do something.

[JamNan]

You mean you HAVEN'T reported your concerns?

[OldCatLady]

Sorry that was a bit ranty.

It took me a long time to come back to this thread simply because I have a lot going on, I did read some posts before but I really wasn't looking for a fight, just some opinions and I took them on board.

I think after thoroughly reading posts I probably should report what I know, it's just very difficult as I really care about this family. And DD1 even if taken into care is very unlikely to ever be adopted, and that's difficult too.




I believe SS massively f*** up this case. But that's not really the point of this. They should never have stopped their involvement but did. And while each hearing and case review went on I looked after DS1 and had a full lowdown afterward. Emma is very open about her mistakes and DS1's disability.

[OldCatLady]

Wow some people have definitely missed the point.

I am in no way saying anything bad about council flats or people that live in them. The "you get the picture" was a seperate sentence at the end of a paragraph. As in "here's the background, blah blah blah, you get the picture", and was not in reference to the the fact they live in a council flat.

I think the fact that both parents do not work is very relevant here. They should have time to wash clothes, play with the kids, interact with then, and yet they don't.

The fact that they live in a council flat and receive benefits is also very relevant since a huge amount of their benefits are due to DS1s disability yet none of it is being used to support him.


And yes I am sure about disability caused by neglect. I didn't realise this was such an important part of my question. But for those interested, he was massively neglected, not interacted with, not fed, changed or nurtured as a baby. At around 4 months he was hospitalised, SS were called, he was literally starving to death, limp and lifeless, did not respond to people, faces, noises or anything, he just lay there. He was in hospital a few weeks, in which time SS were carrying out investigations. 'Emma' has learning difficulties herself and had simply not been shown how to look after a child, she was clueless, had 'accidentally missed' HV appointments etc and had very little contact from family (very small family anyway) since she was living far away and notoriously hard to get hold of.

DS1 came out of hospital into the care of another relative, and remained there for 3 months with visits from Emma and Emma taking parebting classes and watching this relative with the baby. DS1 was put on the 'at risk register' but eventually returned to Emma with lots of visits and supervision. She did okay. When he was approximately 2 years, SS removed him from at risk register and she has had little/no contact from them since. In the last year or so these issues have started to arise again.

Due to severe early neglect, DS1's brain did not form correctly. Hence causing this disability.



So my original question was..are these small things enough to warrant a report or am I just overreacting? It's very hard when it's a family member. I don't have much contact with them due to distance but when I do it's always the same.

[MrsWinnibago]

Well anyone could claim "X knew all about the neglect"

How could it be proved?

[Selks]

MrsW, I can't see how it would lead to false claims (there are already plenty of those), but perhaps this is for another thread