to think it's inappropriate for a 6 yo girl to hang around with 12 yo boys?

[TractorTam]

When DD has contact with her father, she spends a lot of her time with her fathers girlfriends brother who is 12, and sometimes his friends too. I voiced concern months ago because DD was becoming very attached to him, coming home in tears if he wasn't there and saying she wouldn't go unless she was. He was also showing her inappropriate films and games which were causing nightmares.

Since then her father has told her to keep what goes on at contact a secret However, last night she was building a pile of sticks in the garden and let slip that at the weekend the boys built a fire like this and lit it with a lighter while she was with them. No sign of any adult supervision. Am I being unreasonable to think she shouldn't be hanging around with boys twice her age while unsupervised?

[CharlotteCollins]

You've got serious concerns here, because you have no guarantee that your DD is safe. I don't know whether social services would be any help? I would want supervised contact... but I have no idea how realistic that is.

Posting in relationships might get you some more informed advice.

[BertieBotts]

I agree it's concerning. I think it's beyond shit that there's nothing you can do about it. She's with her dad, she's his responsibility, end of. Unless you have proof of harm there is absolutely nothing you can do. Just keep trying to counter it from your side, arm her with as many tools to keep herself safe as you can, and perhaps keep a diary of any concerning behaviour.

About the secrets, maybe just tell her that you will never ever be cross with her if she tells a secret. And if there's anything that she's worried about telling you, it would be okay to tell her teacher/other trusted adult instead. (I bet dad is only saying "Don't tell mummy", not "Don't tell anybody") Have a word with the teacher to keep her in the loop (that you're concerned about the situation when she's with her dad).

I know this all seems a bit OTT but it's all that you can do. It's using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, but the nutcracker solution would be proper adult supervision and this doesn't seem to be having.

[TractorTam]

I spoke to the NSPCC for advice as DD has also said in the past that she's been left alone in public/at home with the boy unsupervised but unless something happens, there's little I can do about it seems.

Contact is eow and a little extra in the holidays. It isn't court ordered so I'm considering that my next step might be to put my foot down somewhat (I.e. Demand she isn't left alone, that she isn't allowed to watch 12/15 certificate films etc) and reduce contact if he continues not to do these things/continues to tell her tokeep eeverything a secret. Then if he took me to court, I would be able to.ask CAFCASS to fully investigate my concerns.

[BertieBotts]

That might be worth doing, might be worth asking others what their experience is with CAFCASS though. I don't have direct experience, but if they're going to say the same thing (ie nothing they can do unless something happens) then it might not be worth stirring up everything for. Although I suppose it also depends how you think he might react, and if it gets contact reduced even for a while it might be worth it.

Sorry I keep saying the same thing but it's so ridiculous that children's safety is not adequately protected in law.

[TractorTam]

Completely agree with you, Bertie. If it was a professional such as a teacher acting like her father is, there'd be hell to pay. Yet because he contributed some DNA, he can do whatever he likes until she is harmed

[BertieBotts]

It's terrifying. If it was an uncle or grandparent exposing her to such things then you'd be advised by pretty much everyone not to let her stay over any more. I had awful concerns with my ex, and this was before DS was really talking so I had no idea but was just getting snippets of stuff that added up to a really worrying picture. I explained my concerns to my health visitor and she kept minimising everything I said and downplaying it. The girlfriend who he was with at the time later had her children taken into care! I'm sure DS is fine and wasn't harmed at the time, but seriously. I can't believe that I wasn't taken seriously at all. They just thought I was a paranoid ex trying to cause problems or control everything. Luckily (and sad as it is I do consider it lucky) XP totally lost it when they broke up and hasn't seen DS since then and that was three years ago.

It's a joke. I mean surely there should be some kind of system in place to differentiate between "my ex lets the children stay up too late and buys them toys I don't want to buy them" and "I think my child is being exposed to adults taking drugs/being left unsupervised with only a 12 year old responsible for her and allowed to play with fire".

[TractorTam]

Yes, it's been the same for me since separation. I've spoken to the GP, HVs, teachers, NSPCC about my concerns but it just gets downplayed because he's her father. He can spout on about how I'm controlling, bitterand overreacting and until something actually comes of it all, I have to just sit tight and hope for the best

Losing contact like your DS has is sadly something I've come to wish for for my DD. I've tried everything to help him rather than block him and he still behaves with complete disregard for DD.

[Adikia]

In my experience of CAFCASS they won't do anything unless there is solid cause for concern, so basically unless something actually happens to her but my concerns weren't about a step-uncle, which may be different as he has no need or right to contact. Is mediation an option?

My DD(5) spends a lot of time with my 11 and 14 year old brothers and their mates, things like the fire building isn't uncommon, they have shared a tent before and last night they slept in a shelter they made in the garden, none of that worries me (I know the boys are sensible with a fire and more careful with her than I am, I might be more worried if I didn't know that) but they are very careful to check films and games with me first and there has never been any mention of tits/wanking or anything like that. that and the secrets would worry me.

[GatoradeMeBitch]

This sounds very worrying. The biggest cause for concern is that her father seems more concerned in her keeping quiet than about her safety. If these boys show her inappropriate films and use sexual language in front of her, I would be concerned about whether they have access to pornography. I know MN has a vocal 'porn is healthy and fun' cheer squad, but it can warp and damage young minds. I was going to go into detail, but I don't think I need to. She is clearly being left alone with them, and it's not like there is a familial relationship between them.

I think you need to stop helping him, especially if he doesn't appreciate it. Put your dd first. Let him start court proceedings. It will give you some much needed breathing space for a start. There are too many red flags, and you can't put her safety at risk. If something terrible did happen, the repercussions could last a lifetime.

[TractorTam]

I know CAFCASS aren't supposed to be that great but sadly this is one in a long list of welfare concerns I have for her regarding contact. When they stand alone they aren't enough to warrant stopping or reducing contact, but I'd hope that together they accumulate to demonstrate he doesn't put her first or consider her welfare as important as he should. I can't keep sitting on my hands and fretting, at least I'd know if it had been taken to court and looked into that I'd done all I could have for DD.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Yes I would be concerned of all the points you raise. she is only 6, and should not be spending unsupervised time with strange much older children, she is becoming attached to girlfriends 12 year old brother. Dad encouraging secrets is not good at all. Because your dd has a. Mild SN makes her more vulnerable. Sharing a room with a 12 year old boy, very inappropriate. I would not let her go away if that's going to happen!

[GoneGirlGone]

YANBU at all. Sounds worrying.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Unfortunately the courts and cafcass will probably take the same stance. My friend dd 6 has court ordered unsupervised contact with her dad. Her dad us a violent and abusive man who sexually assaulted and abused my friend, he has a criminal record for domestic abuse which courts downplay. He is abusing sexually and emotionally the little girl. But the sy?tems designed to protect her police and SS are not taking it seriously. Polîce do not have the resources to deal with it how it should. As a result her dd has to have unsupervised contact, if my friend breaches contact she can have residency reversed. That is the norm within the court system. Contact with dad is important whatever, unless there is physical proof of abuse, difficult if it's emotional or sexual.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Not only are they putting your 6 year old dd in a vulnerable position, but also the boys. Why should 12, year olds want to hang about with those half their age it is inappropriate!