...to think that probationary periods for new employees are just a great way for employers to take the p@@@

[WotchOotErAPolis]

I have to be off work for a week for surgery but have been told I'm not entitled to sick pay as I'm still in my probationary period. [It's six months, but I'm only 4 months through it].

I have put this on the AIBU thread as it's a whinge really - it's in their Ts & Cs that I don't get sick pay, but maybe I should have put off my surgery until after I've passed my probation then?! No wait - you do need surgery right now, not in another two months time, so lets dock your wages while we're at it just to help you feel better.

Seems like employers are taking us for a ride as they can pretty much do what they like while there are so many people chasing jobs. They say 'jump' we all say 'how high?'.

[WoodliceCollection]

OP YANBU, shocked people think you are. If there were permanent jobs for most people then fine, give employers an easy chance at the start I suppose, but at the moment most jobs are on contracts, often temp, often part-time, often people having to move every couple of years- in those circumstances it's ridiculous to make the first 6 months of any job completely vulnerable to employers' whims- that's 1/4 of a 2 year contract ffs with no rights! I have similar to you lost out on parental leave, supposedly available to all parents, because I have had to move jobs every 3 years at most, then by the time I'm entitled to it (after 1 year employment for a specific company), of course your child is too old (unless you get a job and go off on maternity immediately, which seems like an odd thing for employers to want to encourage especially since they won't invest in permanent employees). It is completely absurd and part of the massive skew towards employers away from workers that is part of UK culture at the minute.

"How long has this probationary period thing been around? Is it an American thing? I've never heard of it (though in my defence I graduated in 96, and only worked for 3 years in a professional job before becoming self-employed). Do companies really expect you to uproot and move to a new area for a possible permanent job at the end of 3/6 months? That seems a completely crazy concept. Why would anyone agree to it? Or is it just for lower level jobs local to you?"

It's been around since I finished uni in early 00s. It isn't American specifically, it's neoliberal post-Thatcher 'business friendly' wank. Yes, companies do really expect you to do that if you're under 40 now. "Anyone" would agree to it because the alternative is being on the dole, which is not really a long term option even if someone wanted it to be now. It is not just for lower level jobs, I have a PhD and all jobs I have done have the same system. People have no options as unions don't stand up for younger (and yes, it's pretty stupid, but under 35/40 counts as younger for the purposes of this paradigm shift in employment conditions), less securely employed people, and nor do any mainstream political parties. HTH.

[WotchOotErAPolis]

DHs last job had a 12 month probation but he was then 'let go' after 13 months so certainly no protection for the employee as it didn't benefit him!

[WotchOotErAPolis]

I'm taking sick leave for a week on advice from surgeon. I have a week holiday leave after that but tbh I'll probably be fit enough to go back to work & since we can't go away anywhere cos we have no ££ anyway, I might as well go back.

[Solo]

My last job was 12 months probation and could be extended to 24 and that was from nearly 20 years ago when I started!

Hope you are better soon OP. BTW, isn't it illegal to take leave whilst you are sick? ie you can't take leave when you are sick to cover your wages. Your employer shouldn't be doing that.

[newfavouritething]

How long has this probationary period thing been around? Is it an American thing? I've never heard of it (though in my defence I graduated in 96, and only worked for 3 years in a professional job before becoming self-employed). Do companies really expect you to uproot and move to a new area for a possible permanent job at the end of 3/6 months? That seems a completely crazy concept. Why would anyone agree to it? Or is it just for lower level jobs local to you?

[scottishmummy]

I think probationary period is good idea.mutually for employee and employee

[WotchOotErAPolis]

I do get SSP. Just a bit of a shock having been out of the 'proper job' market for nearly 15 years, having babies to bolster my pension(haha)!

Also coincides with hubby having been out of work since April (having been oow already for 18 months in last 3 years, so me & my p-t minimum wage job is our only income. Last thing we needed was for me to now be off sick with no pay through no fault of my own.

Like you say 'that's the way the cookie crumbles'. I do understand from employers pov too, having been an employer whilst running my own (failed!) business.

[tass1960]

I had a 3 months probationary period but no sick pay for a year. Because I was sick for 3 days 6 months in I will actually be there 18 months before I get paid if I am sick :) I work for a largish firm of solicitors - luckily I am usually pretty healthy (worked in my last job for 12 years and had less than 2 weeks sickness in all that time - paid) ) also it's not the end of the world for me if I lose a few days pay - I do feel for the people I work with who really can't afford to lose the money !

[WatchingSeaMonkeys]

YABU I'm afraid - giving someone a job & them then being off sick for the next x amount of time is a nightmare for employers.

Hopefully there are no complications with your surgery, but if there were it could be a disaster for the employer if they didn't have a probationary period.

[Powaqa]

I've never had a job that came with a probationary period, or maybe I did and I just didn't realise it. I have also never had a job where you didn't get full pay when you were sick

I am 4 months into a new job and was ill the second week I was there, I still got paid.

I work in the private sector and in this and my last job (similar roles) the employer paid an insurance premium for each employee that paid out if you were on long term sick. This appears to be becoming more popular

[todayisnottheday]

Our place has variable probation from 3 to 12 months depending on many things. They pay full pay for up to 1 month after probation (nothing during) but you are subject to performance reviews etc if you have more than 3 days

Sick pay is a minefield, as is the first two years in a job (even if you don't have probation) UK employment law can be pretty ropey really but things are improving.

Op I do sympathise with your situation but the company have to have rules and they have to apply equally sadly. You are basically paying the price for all the people who take the P.

[2rebecca]

I think 6 months probation for important jobs is sensible. I've always had it. I've generally come across it for highly paid jobs though and then it's a mutual assessment thing and gives both parties a chance to see how well they fit in.
It gives you an idea of someone's attitude to their job, are they a clockwatcher who does the bare minimum or do they seem to enjoy their job and want to contribute.
re sick pay if it's a one off operation you need then it seems short sighted of your employer to be churlish about it. On the other hand someone who made a habit of Monday sickies and saw their sickness days as an "allowance" like their holidays wouldn't make it past 6 months.
If your employer wants to keep you and you generally have a good attitude to your job it's a shame they're not more generous with your surgery.

[BlinkAndMiss]

YABU, the probationary period serves to protect employees and employers. Of course a company doesn't want to be paying sick pay to someone who hasn't put the time in. Everyone is entitled to statutory sick pay anyway aren't they?

I do think your employer is very unreasonable though, 6 months is excessive and very unfair. If an illness presented itself within 3 months then it could be argued that the employee took the job knowing that they would have to take time off. But 6 months! An illness could begin and get worse within that time making it impossible not to take the time off. Your employer doesn't sound like they have your best interests at heart.

[Pregnantberry]

Probationary periods are good. You agreed to the T & C's, can't complain now. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

Yes, I'm sure OP and her employer sat down together and fairly agreed on a contract that worked for both of them.

Most people HAVE to take jobs because they need to pay the bills. There's not really much space for bargaining. You could justify pretty much any form of exploitation with "that's the way the cookie crumbles".

FWIW, I can see why employers would need probationary periods, but I think that half a year is too long to expect someone not to get sick. It goes beyond what I think should reasonably be considered as 'probationary'.

And the fact that some people get no sick pay ever doesn't justify it, it just means that the problem is even worse in the big picture.

[Staryyeyedsurprise]

I've worked for 4 major employers in 15 years. All have paid sick pay although nothing more than SSP in the "probationary period". All have paid full pay for six months and then varying degrees of pay for the following six months. 3 employers were private sector, 1 was public sector. The 3 private sector employers also has other excellent benefits such as enhanced maternity leave, a bonus for coming back to work after maternity leave, employee share schemes, bonuses, paid Christmas parties etc. I didn't think I'd been spectacularly lucky but it seems so?

[MorphineDreams]

I had one that paid sick pay, but they complained if you were actually sick

It does seem very very rare though now. It was only the office staff who got it in my place.

[Fairylea]

I've never had a job that pays sick pay. Ever. And I've had lots of jobs and I am 34. I think it's incredibly rare (and I've had some very senior positions).

I hope your surgery goes well op but I don't think your employer is being unfair.

[paxtecum]

I know someone who works for a company who pays full pay for up to 10 days of sickness.

Most employees at that company are 'ill' 10 days each year.
They treat it as additional annual leave.

[MorphineDreams]

I got caught out with it once, I could have took them to the cleaners had I been there 3 months longer. I wasn't aware of it at all, think it's something few people are.

[Staryyeyedsurprise]

MorphineDreams
YABU, although to be fair there's not much point in a probationary period anyway coz there's next to nothing an employee can do if they get sacked before being there 2 years.

Yes this is true. Probationary periods have no meaning since employers able to dismiss for any reason within first two years. Odd how many people are not aware of this - it's something I always emphasise to people thinking about changing jobs.

[MorphineDreams]

YABU, although to be fair there's not much point in a probationary period anyway coz there's next to nothing an employee can do if they get sacked before being there 2 years.

[Dizzywizz]

I don't get sick pay anyway, even though I've been there 8 years. Just ssp.

[HermioneWeasley]

Could you use annual leave if you want to be paid?

I don't think it's unreasonable that someone with short service doesn't get occupational sick pay. At 4 months in you're a net drain on the company - they've paid for recruitment, training, the cost of personnel admin to bring you in and you will have been less productive than an experienced employee. Now you are going to be off work too. It's not your fault, but it's not the company's fault either.

[ilovesooty]

It's 8 months in my company. During probation you don't get paid for the first day off sick. Recently worked somewhere where all employees only got SSP for the first 3 days of sickness.