To not understand why MN posters refer to top RG universities?

[Dolcelatte]

Surely there is Oxbridge, RG and the rest - or is that oversimplifying the position?

[mumminio]

Isn't it just to distinguish from all the newer less prestigious universities?

[barrackobana]

[GRIN] at 'Sutton 13' sounds like a crime gang aka 'Birmingham 6'

[barrackobana]

I think they're trying to infer that their dc got as close to Oxbridge as possible. In fact isn't there a kind of league withiN the Cambridge colleges? i know some college name get more attention than if you name some others, although they all escape me now. These threads always make me smile. Humans are weird when it comes to trying to impress.

[KeepOnPloddingOn]

I went to an RG Uni. Just looked now, thanks to the above link ^ thanks!

I didn't realise until now. I never heard anyone talk about that at Uni. Why do people care? I barely discuss my degree - never mind to this degree for god sake.

[SingSongSlummy]

In the old days, you just knew which the decent universities were, and so did the employers. Theses days it appears we need a Group or a 13 (and yes, my university features in both listed but my attendance there predates the concept).

[KeepOnPloddingOn]

doobledutch exactly! If I randomly dropped in,
"Yah I have been to a RG Uni you know... " I would probably lose a lot of friends - and rightly so! Cringe.

[MaidOfStars]

I went a Russell Group uni at the time the group was being established. And didn't we hear about it!!

However, my understanding is that the group was formed not to create an Ivy League situation but to create a lobby group for government/parliament. The hot potato at the time was tuition fees, and the RG was formed to support this option as a means of funding HE into the future. My uni was certainly very pro-tuition fee a and very anti-capped tuition fee.

I think the Ivy League status (if it exists) followed on. The best universities were the ones that could wield the most political power. Therefore, any grouping of those universities would naturally be termed 'elite' in some way.

When I see those great universities that aren't part of the Russell Group, I think it reflects their lack of institutional desire to engage in parliamentary lobbying, not their standard of education delivered. Following that, I've always viewed the 'I went to an RG university' boast as a measure of the person's political activity, not educational achievement, although that's obviously not the standard view these days.

Never heard of the Sutton 13, although I note my uni is there...

[WynkenBlynkenandNod]

Bunbaker DD had a talk as part of GCSE options in year 9 where they talked about the Russell Group and facilitating subjects for A level, advising them to chose carefully for GCSE to make sure they don't limit choice later.

Friend's DD in year 12 at another local school and is hoping to go to University, first in to family. Al I am hearing, passed down from the school is Russell Group, Russell Group. I've been trying to point out that some well respected universities aren't part of it and places like Exeter only joined in 2012. I think it is a bit of a blunt instrument that some schools are using.

[RevoltingPeasant]

The thing is, there is a huge amount of snobbery around this, much of it ignorant and misguided.

If you work as a top engineer (say) and you know that there are 3-4 departments in the country that really produce the goods - fair enough.

But I hate all the employers who come on saying 'Oh, I just chuck out the CVs with non-RG degrees on them.' I teach at an ex-poly and believe me, the best students are just as bright and high-achieving as when I taught at a 'top' RG institution.

It's often a discreet snobbery against poorer kids. Because these days, kids whose families have less money will often go to the 'local' university to be able to live at home or have a short commute. That will often be an ex-poly.

But the snobbishness...? It's ridiculous. I did my first two degrees at Oxford (not a boast, just a fact) and there were certain colleges that everyone looked down on. I mean, ffs. It's all just desperate self-validation.

We also used to chant 'I'd rather go to Durham than be a Tab [at Cambridge]' which is surely the ultimate wanky snobbishness Every time I hear someone talking about RG I get that chant in my head!

[mumtosome61]

When was it last updated? I'm surprised UEA isn't on there.

[TillyTellTale]

mumtosome61 when was what updated? RG? It's not actually a list of 'good' unis. Just treated as if it is. There are going to be stunning university subject departments outside the Russell Group.

It's more of a private lobbying group for "research-led"/"research-intensive" universities. They last let some new universities into the fold in 2012.

Does UEA do much research? If it doesn't, it could be the best university in the country, but it presumably wouldn't/couldn't be eligible to join.

[MaidOfStars]

When was it last updated? I'm surprised UEA isn't on there
I don't think you passively graduate to RG membership, no matter how good you are (although if you are good, you will be asked to join).

[EllenJanesthickerknickers]

Oh no! Leicester University isn't a Russell Grant one! How can that be? They invented genetic fingerprinting after all. I'm cross.

[missymayhemsmum]

I would only ever use the phrase 'Russell Group' to refer to my children's choice of university when speaking to someone who would use the term 'broken home' to refer to our family.

[mumtosome61]

UEA I think won a research excellency award or something recently, that's the only reason I was surprised; I don't go there but am from the area.

Interesting though - the idea of RG universities was never put to us as students. Then again, university in general wasn't

[Anotheronebitthedust]

actually PeppermintInfusion Cardiff was established (or received its royal charter) in 1883, whereas Bristol was 1909. Which just goes to show how much the whole RG thing really doesn't matter. The average person on the street neither knows nor cares, and I would imagine the vast majority of employers only a have a very vague idea of which unis are 'good' or not, often based on their own (usually outdated) experiences, regional prejudice, etc, rather than the yearly rankings, which vary hugely from year to year, and subject to subject, anyway.

I also don't see how RG unis are really equivalent to the IVY league: RG is 24 unis out of a few hundred, Ivy league is the 8 "top" unis out of literally thousands in the US, so a much smaller percentage of "cream of the crop" students, if you are determined to adhere to such rulings.

[LongTimeLurking]

The only places I have heard people mention the "Russell Group" is here on MN, the student room forum and the daily mail comments section. Usually in the form of "My son is attending a RG university" or "I got a 2.1 from a RG university".

Moronic snobbery as my guess is most don't even know what the Russell group is about. Some very, very good universities are not part of the RG and some of those in the RG are not all that hot in all areas.

RG doesn't even refer to all the 'old' universities as quite a few of those are not in the RG either.

There is also the 1994 group of smaller research based universities and most are very good.

And psssst.... some of the "ex polys" are actually rather good and very strong in particular subjects.

[LongTimeLurking]

I should say the 1994 group WAS a group since they disbanded recently I think.

[slug]

Rag universities need to be a certain size before they can join. Smaller universities, many of which are highly specialised can't join. I work for one of these. We regularly make international lists of top rated universities but are just too small to join the RG. Bizarrely when I told my parents in NZ, neither of whom went to university themselves, where I was working they were impressed. In the UK however, because we're not one of the big groups ( we were part of the 1994 group until it imploded last year) the name is rarely recognised. Go figure.

[TheRealAmandaClarke]

So many ppl go to university now that many ppl like to use the distinction between RG universities and non RG universities to maintain their status above others. Previously it was possible to look down on ppl who graduated from a poly, now they're all called universities it's important to make someone who attended a non RG establishment realise that their degree was easier and is worth less than one from a RG Uni.
Must maintain the status quo don't you know.

[lljkk]

RG isn't remotely like Ivy League.

Ivy League you need to have huge leadership potential to get in. That's what they're about. They aren't about top academics although that tends to go with high leadership potential.

I don't know exact percentages, but I would guess only about 0.5% of USA freshman are at Ivy League whereas probably more like 5-15% of UK 6th formers go to RG. Still an elite tier arguably, but not THAT elite.

Oxbridge and Only Oxbridge in UK is more reasonably comparable to Ivy League, but MNers say that Oxbridge is really for passionate-about-their-subject super narrowly academic types and that absolutely still isn't what Ivy League is about (unless it comes with huge leadership potential).

[Delphiniumsblue]

All they need to do is research the best place for their course. One of my sons went to a RG because it offered what he wanted to do and it suited him. My other son went to an ex poly- it was one of the top places for his course, in fact it was the only place he wanted to go.

[Shardlakelover]

So what are the top RG universities then? Apart from Oxbridge?

[EllenJanesthickerknickers]

Shardlake, there's a link on the fourth post from the top.

[LadyIsabellaWrotham]

I would never say IRL "I / my DC went to an RG uni donchaknow" obviously I'd say "I/they went to Cardiff/Aberystwyth/Sussex/wherever". On MN however, you occasionally want to describe someone as well educated and/or academically successful, for the purposes of a point you're making and you want to evidence that description. Clearly "she's got a degree" is of limited use for that purpose nowadays if it covers one third of the population, so you reach for a narrower description that marks them out. RG (or Sutton) is clumsy for this purpose, but it's normally quite effective, because there's no denying that regardless of whether those institutions are best for any specific subject, they are generally tough to get into.