to want to sack my wedding photographer as I have discovered he is a UKIP supporter and is against gay marriage?

[Jen99]

We are getting married later in the year and we booked a photographer after a recommendation from a close friend. She knows him from her church and he has photograhed several of her friends' weddings. We were happy with him at first, seemed very professional, great photos and albums etc. He invited us to be friends on FB on both his personal and professional pages, which we accepted. However I began to get quite concerned about his posts, moaning about how much work he has and he just comes across as quite arrogant. He has also liked 2 links on FB, one to show that he is a UKIP supporter and two that he is against gay marriage.

Both me and DP are having serious reservations about him and I really don't want to pay someone who's beliefs are so fundamentally against ours. However we will more than likey lose our deposit
I don't doubt that he is a good photographer but he will be with us for most of our day and don't want to feel uncomfortable around hin. He is booked for the bridal prep on the morning of the wedding so will be spending several hours with myself and my family prior to the wedding.
Really not sure what to do

[OiYou]

Matthew Parris is not religious, btw. But as far as religious people are concerned, the word 'marriage' meant one particular thing (formalised relationship between a man and a woman, primarily for the procreation of children) and had done for centuries and centuries. Then it changed. In a few years. And they were expected to just accept that something they were taught was culturally fixed was in fact mutable. And if some of them find that a big change to make, they are labelled by some people on MN as intolerant homophobes.

Heterosexual biblical marraige where both parties enter as virgins and stay together until death do they part and don't divorce and try and make as many babies as possible.

And yet those people who belive marriage is the above.. manage to accept heterosexual marriage despite heterosexuals having a 50% divorce rate. And they manage to accept heterosexual marriage where the participants are over child bearing age in the first place. Or where the participants are infertile. Or atheist. Or had been living in sin prior to the marriage.

People accept the things they choose to accept marriage but draw the line at homosexual marriage because they don't like it.

[OiYou]

By the same logic, then, OP is just as entitled to disapprove of people who express homophobic opinions, & adopt a policy of not buying services from them.


Oh no raven, that makes the person refusing to work with him a bigot logic is waste of time for UKIP supporters

[OiYou]

I don't want to get deleted for a personal attack.

SO I mean this as broadly as possible (and if you think it is directed at you...well you should probably reconsider your ideas)

But basically, if you think choosing not to engage with a sexist/racist/disablist or homophobic person is the same as making someone feel bad about the way they were born and being a racist/sexist/disablist or homophobic person.....

You are a fucking IDIOT.

NO way of saying it nicely. You basically are complete waste of air.

[specialsubject]

I see no evidence that UKIP policies are racist - but it seems quite a few of their people are. I had two immigrant grandparents if it matters.

to the question: OP, if it bothers you, cancel him and make sure you tell him why. You will lose your deposit but that is a small price to pay for your principles. His behaviour also seems a bit bizarre as he clearly won't get any business from gay couples!

Wedding photographers are ten a penny so choose one you like.

[ravenAK]

But we aren't talking about someone feeling awkward or taking time to adapt. This is someone going to the trouble of publishing their homophobia on social media.

& no-one's bashing him for his views, either. OP just doesn't want to hire his freelance services as his unprofessional online behaviour makes her feel uncomfortable.

& he could very easily avoid his opinions being an issue in his professional life by the very simple expedient of keeping them to his personal page.

[CrispyFern]

Oh same thing happened to me! The florist we were using invited me to like her page. She was mildly racist. I decided not to use her. I told her why.

A photographer is worse because he'll be there all day. I say it's worth losing the deposit.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

The black family directly next to him are probably equally impressed with his poster

You're probably right, though equally they could be UKIP supporters themselves for all we know

The party aren't my cup of tea, but I know several long-settled immigrants who vote UKIP, feeling that some of the current policies on the subject reflect badly on them and that they get unfairly blamed for problems not of their making. Maybe they're misguided or maybe they're not, but it's their choice and I really don't consider it my place to tell them how to vote

FWIW I very much respect OP for clarifying that the photog hasn't actually made any overt remarks on his site, but that their views are based on his choice of "likes." Probably he's been a fool to risk that impression on a business site, but really - shouldn't all this just be a matter of personal choice??

[Abra1d]

Matthew Parris said:

I don’t want to force the word [marriage in the context of gay marriage] on anyone and because of my age and generation I will feel a bit awkward about its new use for the rest of my life.

is he being homophobic, too, at feeling awkward? Despite being gay?

Matthew Parris is not religious, btw. But as far as religious people are concerned, the word 'marriage' meant one particular thing (formalised relationship between a man and a woman, primarily for the procreation of children) and had done for centuries and centuries. Then it changed. In a few years. And they were expected to just accept that something they were taught was culturally fixed was in fact mutable. And if some of them find that a big change to make, they are labelled by some people on MN as intolerant homophobes.

I'm not desperately religious and I don't have strong views either way pro-/anti- gay marriage. It's enshrined in law and generally I think that permanent relationships should be encouraged as they make for a more stable society.

But stop bashing people who perhaps find it takes them longer to adapt to change.

[ravenAK]

OK, so the rather vocal (but not at all racist oh deary me no) UKIP contingent think this chap should be entitled to object to gay marriage - presumably this would mean he might well turn down work if he was offered the job of photographer at a gay wedding?

Entirely with you so far. He has every right to hold those views & to circumscribe his business arrangements accordingly. Even though he's not actually being asked to join the grooms for a threesome...

By the same logic, then, OP is just as entitled to disapprove of people who express homophobic opinions, & adopt a policy of not buying services from them.

He's not being 'sacked', he's a freelancer. He & OP have a one-off contract, & subject to penalty clauses, either of them can dissolve that contract if they decide that it doesn't suit.

If he didn't want his personal opinions to be taken into consideration by clients, the answer's perfectly simple: don't post them on your business profile.

[INeedABiggerBoat]

Jen99 a photographer is a big part of any wedding day and if you're not going to feel comfortable around him then you shouldn't have qualms about finding someone else, if you can afford to lose the deposit. My husband is a London wedding photographer and is part of a big network of UK togs, so if you would like recommendations of togs (who as far as we know aren't UKIP supports or anti-gay marriage) in your area just PM me.

[jollygoose]

I am not anti gay in any way but certainly could not care less about gay marriage and dont see the point.

[LoveSardines]

And the point about gay marriage, jollygoose?

[jollygoose]

ffs what is it with mumsnet and the hate campaign against ukip. It seems to me that you all think all ukip voters are racists. This is way off the mark and a large part of the population will vote ukip simply because we want out of europe. I for one would be deligted for the uk to be able to make and abide by its own rules without european diktat. I would also like to be able to send european criminals back to their homeland and not allow them return to the Uk.
I am quite sure the rest of Europe will still want to trade with us and why not.
Just look at some of these bigoted comments, plain ridiculous most.

[samsam123]

whats his name and address because I would like to use him -

[LoveSardines]

Christ some people.

Many on this thread, and elsewhere, would see this man's support of UKIP and opinion that homosexual relationships are inferior as a POSITIVE.

Thus OP should have no qualms whatsoever about giving him the boot.

Why the fuck should she have to have a racist homophobe mixing it with all her friends on her wedding day, asking her to smile. Is she going to be able to smile at him for the photos knowing what she does? Probably not, it will be at the back of her mind what a bastard he is.

So yes OP absolutely sack him, don't give it a second thought.

[Rebecca2014]

Wow ok. You could just maybe ask him? he may say "I have nothing against gay people but due to my religious views I do not believe in gay marriage."

"I support UKIP as I do not want to be part of the EU."

Really it could be as simple as that but because of his own personal opinion he is getting the sack? I hope he does not give you the deposit back, I bet you think how righteous and liberal you are when really you are as much as a bigot as the so called people you hate.

[LoveSardines]

Have you looked at the cancellation clause will you get any money back etc.

You should definitely cancel, you obviously feel strongly about it and it will overshadow your day.

[Jen99]

This is a genuine post and not a need to show 'my liberal credentials'
Since we signed the contract and I have seen his fairly regular updates I have begun to have a bad impression of him as has my DP who has seen the same as me. The UKIP and anti-gay marriage have just added to this. Let me be clear he has not put anything overtly racist or homophoic on FB but his 'likes' could give that impression to someone.
If I was still researching photographers and I had seen he was a UKIP supporter from his professional page I wouldn't have even contacted him, so I suppose that answers my question really. I am tolerant of other people's views but I also have the right to not use their services if I disagree with them.
A photographer is a very big part of the day and whoever does it will be with myself and my family for several hours prior to the wedding for the bridal prep so I need to be comfortable with them

[Stuffofawesome]

if I discovered someone I had contracted was homophobic, bigoted and racist I would not give them my business

[BettyBotter]

26 years ago dh and I married in the local register office. As dh is from a Muslim country apparently the registrar needed a separate meeting with me to warn me that dh might take another 3 wives in his country despite the fact that dh's country is secular and polygamy is illegal there

All this I could accept. The registrar was just doing her job according to prototcol. What I could not accept was why she needed to put on a funny 'forrin' accent and imitate dh pretending to argue back. I found this incredibly ignorant, offensive and frankly racist but because it was our wedding and she was an integral part of it, I said nothing and let her carry on.

To this day, 26 long years later, I regret that I let her be a part of our wedding. Athough it didn't in the end spoil a lovely day, it still leaves a bitter taste and I wish I'd had the courage to put my foot down.

Losing a 250 deposit would be worth it not to have someone like that at your wedding.

Congratulations

[OiYou]

Upsetting maybe but perhaps the sensitive highly-strung types should get over it.

It's a lovely bit of privilege to be unaffected by bigotry, but it doesn't mean that others who have to hear this sort of thing shouldn't be affected.

My neighbor 3 doors down form me with the UKIP poster in their window probably doesn't think he is hurting anyone. Actually the idea that someone thinks my family don't deserve to be here with my British husband is quite hurtful. God knows why.

The black family directly next to him are probably equally impressed with his poster.

alis I agree there is nothing "quaint and old fashioned" about bigotry. My 70 year old grandmother is one of the most vocal anti racist anti homophobia activist types I know.

[OiYou]

^"I've just found out that my photographer is a muslim, I know muslims don't agree with homosexuality, I am going to sack him"
I bet everyone would be calling you a horror.^


Some Muslims don't agree with homosexuality. Like some Christians don't.

SO the OP would be called a horror because they had fired someone based on a belief that he could be anti-gay based solely on him being a Muslim.

The photographer in this scenario is not getting the sack for being a Christian but because they have already announced they are anti-gay.

So yes, you are talking bollocks.

[Gileswithachainsaw]

Exactly drs

We all know people think differently about everything.

We don't all paste pages spouting it on what's supposed to be a business face book page.

If they can't keep views separate on face book when your friends and family and clients will see then of course you would worry what might happen on the day

[ravenAK]

But that's the point, MrsGosling.

If bigot-tog had kept his views in his head then they'd have been irrelevant to his customer.

Like a total numpty, he expressed them on his business website, which means some potential clients are going to be put off him, & the service he's offering.

I don't think we do all 'need to be tolerant' of homophobia or racism, either. They do hurt people.