To think that reading scheme books have no place in a nursery

[ReallyTired]

I feel that a school nursery should be about enriching language, learning through play, physical development, knowledge of the world, learning to seperate from Mum and above all social skills and fun.

Biff and Chip should have no place in a school nursery. (Unless there is a real three year old lumbered with either of those names!) Three year olds should have high quality real books to share with their carer.

[breatheslowly]

Why would you have whole class teaching sessions to cater for the "some children" who have never experienced phonics?

I understand why you would have some apparent repetition of parts of phonics, to ensure that all children used phonics in the same way e.g. to unlearn addin "uh" after each sound, to introduce a specific reading scheme from the beginning or to consolidate learning.

But there is no reason to bore children for the sake of others. I assume that reception teachers differentiate from the start to cater for those children just beginning on phonics through to the rare child who really can read.

[tethersend]

My DD's primary school has no reading scheme at all

[ReallyTired]

"Some children (DH was like this, and our DS seems to be the same) are eager to read quite early, so why no cater for that? "

Certainly children who are ready to learn at three years old are in the minority. Teaching children to read at home is very different to a school setting. Inevitably children often come from different settings into a reception class. Some of those children will have done hardly any phonics and there will need to be some whole class teaching of phonics in reception to cater for the children who have never been taught phonics.

My daughter is board to tears in whole class phonics sessions. I think she would have lost the will to live if she had had to go through it in both nursery and reception. Lack of reading scheme books and phonics sessions in nusery have not held her back. Infact she has over taken some of the children who could (supposely) read on entering reception.

[somewherewest]

Some children (DH was like this, and our DS seems to be the same) are eager to read quite early, so why no cater for that? Its only an issue if unrealistic expectations are being imposed on all the children surely?

[ReallyTired]

"Oh silly me, I'm an early years teacher so I clearly know nothing."

There are plenty of early years experts who disagree with making nursery excessively academic. Do they know nothing? Or is there just a difference of opinons? How do we determine who is right?

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10302249/Start-schooling-later-than-age-five-say-experts.html

There are very well educated people who believe that we start formal education far too early and we should wait until six to introduce reading and writing rather than starting formal education at three.

Unfortunately important decisions about when to start an entire class on reading and writing are made with the heart rather than analysising research. High quality pre school education means different things to different people. There is a middle road between no pre school and formally teaching very small children to read.

Prehaps we need Ben Goldacre to help teachers run a well structured study to determine what type of pre school education gives the best results. If educational policy was based on research rather than the whims of whoever is in power then schools would improve.

[Pipbin]

Oh silly me, I'm an early years teacher so I clearly know nothing.

[ReallyTired]

Pipbin

The countries in question have high quality pre school provision, but formal education starts later. There is a greater concentration on mastering the schools needed for school rather than teaching numeracy and literacy. School readiness is not actually being able to read or add up.

A typical German, Finnish or Canadian six year old will have weaker literacy skills than a British six year old. However they have spent their early years developing better speaking and listening skills and fine motor skills. When these children start formal education they fly because they are more ready for formal schooling.

Most literacy tests beyond infants test comprehension. The quality of a child's vocabulary affect a child's reading score more than the age they mastered phonics.

[Pipbin]

Actually if you read this www.nfer.ac.uk/nfer/index.cfm?9B1C0068-C29E-AD4D-0AEC-8B4F43F54A28 then you'll see that even in countries where the compulsary school age is older than here, the children actually start school younger than the compulsory age.

[Pipbin]

Exactly, tznett. What I hate about the 'but they don't start school until 7 in other countries' stuff is a lack of understanding of what happens in preschools in such countries. Yes they start formal schooling later but they are taught to read in pre school.

[tznett]

Yes in other countries children start school later, but they'll be learning some things at nursery that they'd be learning at school here - there's an overlap.

[breatheslowly]

YABU - I don't think that children necessarily differentiate between reading scheme books and other books. And why should my DD who missed out on starting school this year by a few days not have access to a particular type of book that children a couple of weeks older do have access to, just because you don't like them?

[youmustbejoking75]

There's any amount of books in most preschools. As there should be. I got the impression the op was concerned about school reading schemes being used incorrectly.
It is wonderful that reading gives your dd so much, I actually dread the day books will be obsolete

[Longtalljosie]

DD1 is the youngest in her Reception year and loves reading. She has some physical movement issues so is engaged and proud of her reading in a way she never was with drawing / colouring in. Had she been born a fortnight later, she's still be in nursery and I hope there would have been reading opportunities or her self-esteem would have been so much lower...

[youmustbejoking75]

Apologies for typos I'm on phone and trying to teach my 2 year old to blend........not!!

[youmustbejoking75]

I don't believe I at any point said they were being forced to read in nursery. I do question why a nursery has them as I can't find any preschool curriculum that would recommend it. What I know through my work is that a lot of parents put high value on certain types of learning which are not a actually proven to be the best for small children.
I understand that parents want to give their kids the best start and often they think early academia is the way to do it. Nurseries are then under enormous pressure to produce such stuff even though they actually know(as opposed to think)it's not what is considered best practice for a preschool. Its not actual school but parents often want them to model school.

[Pipbin]

If you are a head teacher then you will understand that just because a nursery has reading scheme books available it doesn't mean that all children are being sat in rows and forced to learn to read. As said above learning through play and learning to read are not mutually exclusive.

[youmustbejoking75]

I could read at about 2.5 myself. I was my mother's guinea pig. Its not that having books like that set is a bad thing but really the preschools probably get them due to pressure to be seen to perform and not because they actually think they're a priority. Especially if you are competing with others for business. What the customer wants.......
Early childhood education should not be about reading schemes

[youmustbejoking75]

Really tired I empathise with your name. I really do!
I also know yadnbu. I am a headteacher and I really wish pre schools were not under such pressure from parents to essentially follow an academic curriculum. Unless a child has sen or is from a background where reading is not seen as relevant there is no need at all for books like this in a nursery. But then I'm also the oddball who is holding her kids until 5 to go to school. (Live in Ireland so I can do that). People keep asking me why and I'm fed up explaining. The poster who made the Pisa comments was spot on. Let them play fgs
But hey ho what would I know......actually quite a lot it seems!

[GirlsTimesThree]

YABU. Children develop different skills at different ages. My dd1 could read fluently, expressively and understand the story by the time she was 3.5. She wasn't taught, she could just do it. I was shocked when she starting reading road signs from her buggy!
She couldn't ride a bike without stabilisers until she was six. I would never have said that two wheeled bikes shouldn't be available for other children who wanted to give it a go or were proficient at riding them.
Resources should be available for all children to access whatever their age or stage of development. However, nothing should be forced.

[HanSolo]

I could read at 2. By the time I started reception, I had finished the infant school reading scheme.

Different children have different needs, and different interests. YABVU if you think nurseries should not cater for all, wherever their interests or talents lie.

Also, if you have actually read the ORT books, you will know that those children actually experience a lot of the world, separate from their parents, work out problems that are intellectual and physical, solving them themselves... pretty much what you are hoping nurseries do for everyone's children!

[GoblinLittleOwl]

separate, separate, separate!

[GoblinLittleOwl]

separate

[tznett]

I believe there are more important things for a small child to learn like social skills.

Reading and social skills aren't mutually exclusive. Early literacy is just one of many different things offered by pre-school nurseries.

[AuroraSim]

Beyond the occasional reading time once a week, my DS's nursary are relaxed on books.

So I bought the biff, chip and kipper books for home. He loves them xxx

[cheeseandcrackers]

My ds (2.10) loves Biff & Chip and begs to read them. He can read levels 1 & 2 by himself and adores it. He has lots of non reading scheme books too but is desperate to read himself and B & C are ideal. I agree that they shouldn't be compulsory but why take the pleasure away from those who enjoy it?

I don't get why children should be forced to wait to learn to read if they themselves really want to read earlier. All children are different, some won't be ready until they're 5 but for others, they just soak it all up at 2 and it seems wrong not to make the most of their desire to learn if they want to ?o it.