To think DDs 2 English teacher should not have said " a C Grade at Gcse is only worth putting in the bin" .

[motown3000]

DD2 13 ,Yr8 at Grammar School. Her friend started talking to DD about her elder brother and that he is expecting C grades for most of his Gcses. DDs English teacher overhears them, and in front of the class says "A C grade is only worth putting in the bin" and you are both in lunch time Detention. ( They Both should have reading and doing a comprehension based on the reading).

The teacher is Old School, and was my Niece's favourite teacher, all her yr11s last year got A* Grades at Gcse. My niece got an A at A level with her she is a brilliant teacher however is very strict, ( she needs to adapt a little bit "Chill" , no one is allowed to take off their blazers E.T.C in her class. ( My niece says DD is very lucky to have her, and will grow to enjoy her classes) . However, though I think she should not have demeaned DDs friends brother who tries very hard. I agree they both deserved Detention for talking, just not the rudeness to DDs friends brother.

[balia]

the standards required to achieve this are pitifully low

In what way is this 'objectively speaking'? It's not expressed very objectively, certainly. What exactly is this assertion based on?

[motown3000]

No the Brother is not at the Grammar ( Girls) , he is y11 at my Yr10s DD Comprehensive ( High School). My elder DD Estimates are mostly Bs with a couple of Possible A grades , ( Although C grades for their average pupils are more important) than A grades for their brightest .I have mentioned this on a previous post.

[cory]

But where is the point in trying to reinforce ambition or good work ethics in children by saying something that is both thoroughly unpleasant and blatantly untrue? I just can't see how that is good teaching.

[Pleasejustgo]

Relatively her comment is true Cory

[CurlyhairedAssassin]

Cory, that's great for your daughter considering her individual circumstances. She has done really well. I'm sure any decent grammar school would take that into account but if swathes of their pupils (who did not have any emotional problems) suddenly started resting on their laurels and doing the minimum thinking that they could get a C with virtually no work then the school's reputation would plummet.

[motown3000]

Cory. That is great news and a real achievement for your DD.

[HappyAgainOneDay]

I know that GCSEs are not the same as O levels were (another thread, anyone?) but we were not given grades. We either passed or failed. Pass mark for one subject at grammar school was 48%. Below half the available marks would have been a pass? These days that would be a C grade so I see where the teacher is coming from.

[GertTheFlirt]

None of you are comparing like with like though.

A throwaway comment in a grammar school to grammar pupils who are groomed to succeed no matter the cost, is not comparable to the achievements of pupils with learning difficulties in comprehensives.

I am qualified to comment: I have a child in a comprehensive, one in grammar and one in a secondary modern. I also spend a great deal of time at the PRU. There are vast differences in behaviour and expectations between all these types of schools.

What is said to the grammar child by teachers is motivational - if it were said to the other two it would be demoralising. Only the teacher knows the correct pitch to the pupils in front.

[MoominMammasHandbag]

Personally I think being a good teacher is not just about pushing kids through the sausage factory of getting good exam results but also setting an example of decent behaviour.

Belittling a C grade in English would suggest to me someone lacking in empathy, life experience and basic good manners. I wouldn't consider those the qualities of a good teacher.

Of course many on Mumsnet subscribe to the sausage factory view of education, so I doubt many will share my views.

[GertTheFlirt]

I have graded O Levels - they were graded A-E; CSEs were 1-5, with 1 being of equal value to C at O Level and GCSEs were brought in to merge the two and graded A*-G.

[Pleasejustgo]

Hear hear Gert

[Queenofthedrivensnow]

Yanbu. A c is the best some kids can do. My service users (children in long term care) often struggle to get c's and this is now the requirement for most fe stuff it apprenticeships or whatever. One of my girls last year got nearly all c's. I cried with joy and so did she

[cory]

CurlyhairedAssassin Sat 22-Mar-14 13:55:11
"Cory, that's great for your daughter considering her individual circumstances. She has done really well. I'm sure any decent grammar school would take that into account but if swathes of their pupils (who did not have any emotional problems) suddenly started resting on their laurels and doing the minimum thinking that they could get a C with virtually no work then the school's reputation would plummet."

And what reason do we have to believe that marks in this excellent grammar school would suddenly plummet if the teacher refrained from making stupid comments that reveal her as an unsympathetic and unthinking person?

Personally, I have always felt that dc work better and learn better if they respect their teachers as sensible and thoughtful people who are confident in their ability to inspire by other means than by dissing the achievements of people outside their own little bubble.

Even before her sobering experience dd (a natural high achiever) would have struggled to respect an adult who spouted nonsense like that.

[BrianTheMole]

Exactly that Gert.

[elliejjtiny]

When I was undiagnosed dyspraxic (and not entitled to the extra help that I should have had) I got 4 C's, 4 D's and a G in my GCSEs. I'm really proud of this, especially as it took 4 attempts to get my GCSE in English language. A C may not be very good for a grammar school pupil but this teacher knows nothing about the boy she is criticising. I agree with the detention for talking though.

[cory]

"What is said to the grammar child by teachers is motivational - if it were said to the other two it would be demoralising."

Motivational to talk about a student's brother like that? Really? In what world?

What would have been wrong with "get back to work and stop talking girls"?

[VivaLeBeaver]

And what if the girl goes home and tells her brother a teacher said that? As 12yos are likely to wind their brothers up.

Maybe it will be the opposite of motivational and he will think right, no point trying at all?

[Nocomet]

My Dyslexic DD1 will be over the moon if she gets a B for English language, but having done 2 CAs aged 14 and having lost her "speaking and listening" mark, a C is probably what she'll get.

Quite probably alongside a B for Lit, the CAs for which she's done more recently.

She works incredibly hard, she'll get excellent A levels (science) and wander off to uni.

But, she fucking well does not need her peers and tutors having that fucking smug attitude.

No one would say the same to a historian who gets a C for maths.

[HolidayCriminal]

I'm on the fence; Teach is an insufferable snob about her subject & what she expects of her pupils. So it made sense in context but in another context it would be dreadful. I can't take it too seriously.

Our local high school also has 42% pass rate for 5xGCSE with E+Maths. Very few of those kids are deprived or subnormal (or have SN). They're just ordinary.

[GertTheFlirt]

The whole point of the education system is to stretch a pupil to the best of their - the pupil and the teacher - ability.

Of course with the tiny snap shot we have posted in the OP we have no way of knowing whether the teacher overheard the whole conversation. Unlikely as ears prick up on certain phrases and to a teacher of English I'm sure the phrase 'c grade' would have been one of those. Then of course we don't have any idea of body language, intonation, tone, relationship between teacher and pupil.

However, because this is an open forum, there will be readers with children with learning difficulties, myself included. FWIW I have one child (comprehensive) who managed to leave with nil, nada, nowt, nothing. Not a single GCSE, he was predicted G grades and even he was smart enough to know it wasn't worth his time turning up from Year 10. On the other hand the next child (Grammar) was so much more able. I love the ethos of grammar schools being healthy competition, both sports and grades. A C grade would have been an absolute shocker. Those who did get a C or below (and that does happen, rarely) in English had to resit in Y11. And it was resits for B and below in maths.

FWIW 63% nationally got C or above in English Summer 2013.

Shoot me all you like but 63% (1 in point 6 of a person) pushes the need to get a better grade because it becomes a minimum standard. And that is why Grammar teachers will push to their pupils to remain in the 14.2% (1 in 7) of A* and A grades. It is pointless having an academically superior system if all it aspires to be is mediocre and less than average.

www.jcq.org.uk/examination-results/gcses/gcse-and-entry-level-certificate-results-summer-2013

[driving101]

Why don't we just get rid of the grading system and give everyone a "I studied English" sticker.

[Shallishanti]

'working in a grammar school is no excuse for stupidity'
EXACTLY
how hard would it be to say
'some people have to work very hard to get a C and it's a great acheivement. If you two don't buck your ideas up you will end up with a C which will tell everyone how lazy you've been'

[Delphiniumsblue]

She is simply wrong. A C grade is a passport to lots of jobs and apprenticeships. My dyslexic son worked really hard for his and I doubt he could have done better. It opened doors for him and he has done very well.

[themaltesefalcon]

I'd be very happy to have such a person teaching my child.

[ilovesooty]

She probably shouldn't have said it in that way but she was reinforcing the expectations for her class rather than commenting specifically about someone else.

None of it would even had happened if the OP 's daughter and friend had kept their mouths shut and got on with the work.

If the OP didn't want strict standards and high expectations why did she choose a grammar school education?