aibU...probably?

[IknowImAnArse]

I am coming to the end of my maternity period with my second baby.

When working, I am a higher rate tax payer in greater london.

I can just about return to work when factoring in childcare costs, so basically I would earn £63 per month - full time. Husbands salary pays bills excluding food..just due to huge mortgage and a couple of hundred quid of existing debts.

It's all very jolly to say ah you are a partnership childcare costs should be split, however the opportunity cost of returning to work makes it pointless.

If I go back to work, I will be paying £22000 taxation for someone else to gain tax credits and
I presume have a greater level of disposable cash than me.

That really is an aside...

My real question is, am I being unreasonably to ask, does anyone else work for nothing (full time) for the future of your career, knowing that if you take 5 years out, your skills are obsolete?

How do you motivate yourself?

How do you not feel a little bit bitter?

[Worriedkat]

I have worked part time in finance for years, qualified roles for about 30k pro rata outside of London. We have just recruited a part time FD on nearly 60k pro rata. If you're in a good role with a good employer the part time aspect wouldn't hold you back, worst case scenario you might tread water for a few years until you can pick up the full time pace again. Much preferable to giving up altogether and being a SAHM, did that for a few years as we'll and it was much harder to get back into employment than I had thought it would be.

[TheGreatHunt]

Please tell me again what is your childcare? How many children? Two in nursery for 2.6k?!

I'm in London and have two dc with a nanny and it is cheaper than that - at around 1,8k a month. So I suggest you find new childcare.

What exactly do you do in finance? I'm an accountant (auditor) and work 4 days a week. There are plenty of financial controller/head of finance roles which are part time.
Plus, as many men I know have done, you could apply for a full time role and negotiate part time hours.

[bakingtins]

As a higher rate taxpayer can you not use the salary sacrifice schemes for nursery vouchers which will reduce your effective childcare costs? Plus as others have said soon your older child will get some government funded hours. Any way to remortgage or downsize to reduce outgoings? Look at other childcare options - might a nanny-share be cheaper?
I think you are fortunate to be in the position where you have choices and a career. You need to take the long view that maintaining or improving your position at work will benefit you once your kids are at school.

[CalmaLlamaDown]

In my experience it was short term pain for long term gain. Went back to work when DS was 9 months so very little or no financial gain on being SAHM at that stage, BUT it did allow me to call the shots a few years down the line re my working hours. I now do 9 - 2.30 so work around the school run and I love it. This wouldn't have been possible if I'd had a career break of 4 or 5 years. Hope you work something out to find that happy medium.

[BirthdayMuppet]

In terms of my feelings about it, well, in the end I couldn't do it. I was in almost exactly your position - salary mid forties for four days, two kids, great prospects if I went back, 300 travel a month, 1,200 childcare a month (minus vouchers), but god I hated that job and missed my kids. It was never working for buttons though, but that still didn't make the emotional side any better. I lasted six months then had a bit of a break down. I took a three year career break till my youngest went to school but by then I knew I didn't want to go back at all. And two years after that it's still the right decision for me. But there are costs: I've lost a certain sense of self beyond the children, I'll almost certainly never work at that level again, we've halved or family income and even minus childcare and travel that's a big big difference to our budget. Looking back I'd just say make very very sure it would be the right decision for you. Your childcare cost estimates do seem excessive - I too was in the South East and we still came in at under half your figures. You'll have a Damn sight more than £63 left over, that's for sure.

[MellowAutumn]

One does wonder for someone earning that amount in finance just how you can be quite so crap at finances ;) So many ways suggested to make this work for you instead of crying poor me.

[GingerMaman]

I will be going back for nothing, in fact will be dependent on DH, but I know that if I don't oh back now and of what I need to do, I'll never get the chance later. So I suppose it's for the longer term benefit.

However, I am going back part time. And if it gets too stressful, I will probably call it a day - it wasn't meant to be.

[Joysmum]

Your choosing to invest in your future by having the massive mortgage.

If you gave up work, it's not just the wage you give up on, it the lack of promotion opportunities. Worse than that, when you do go back you go back at a ladder level then you are now and your career has gone backwards.

You also lose out on pension and a sense of self as society, and you, see you as just a wife and mum, many see you as unemployed!

Being a 'kept woman' isn't the easy life people think it is hat from the things I've written above.

[Carriemac]

I really understand how you feel OP. I remember it well.
It's crap getting out of bed early in the morning ad dropping kids to nursery for so little reward. And I did resent all the tax I paid, rewarding society for my hard work, whereas if you are a SAHM society rewards you. And to say that on MN is taboo, because of all the people on tax credits etc who are so touchy about any hint that anyone else is subsidising them.
The best solution for me was to go part time, 4 days per week, just made it all more bearable. I'm now a couple of grades higher than the ones in my career who did SAHM , and my salary and pension pot reflect this and make it worth it.

[LittleBearPad]

You do it so that in five years time you have a job that uses your skills and you don't have a black hole on your CV.

A nanny would be cheaper for childcare for two.

How are you going to buy food with £63.

[Ziplex]

80k to pay 22k in tax.
That is 50k after tax/NI, 4k plus a month take home, £200 per day.
I suppose if you figure child care/travel etc it wouldn't leave a lot.

[BananaramaLlama]

"I did resent all the tax I paid, rewarding society for my hard work, whereas if you are a SAHM society rewards you"

Huh? How do you figure that out? As far as I know, SAHM don't get anything, financially speaking, that working parents don't get.....

[BananaramaLlama]

Sorry, that quote from Carriemac

[IknowImAnArse]

Thank you for all your points, it's really given me some food for thought.

Err, just to say I am exactly correct about my net position, however I made a mistake regarding tax. Other than that, finances are spot on - aside from finding cheaper childcare costs I can really see any viable solutions. I think it would be daft to stop paying mortgage in order to subsidise myself working for nothing. If we need the money that badly I shall get a job in a supermarket stacking shelves in the evening and then there will be no childcare costs.

I shall spend some time updating my CV and make more of a concerted effort to see if there are any part time roles available. I think I have now come to the conclusion that I want to work part time so I get the best of both worlds. I really want to be a viable prospect to an employer in 5 years time so I suppose I just need to grit my teeth for a few years.

Where we live a childminder is 6.50ph per child. I shall look into nannies and see if that will help the budget.

Thankyou all.

[Caboodle]

Can we please avoid the 'I pay my tax and it goes to everyone else - poor me - it's unfair' thinking? Roads / schools / hospitals? It also implies that the person who is genuinely struggling on a very low wage can do without the little financial help they get.
Also, it isn't helpful to say to the OP ' you chose your huge house so huge mortgage'...this is the SE; I expect even a small house is expensive; ditto for transport.
OP - you will be working for your career and you have to ask yourself is it important to you? Also, you are paying a pension, be grateful you earn enough to even consider this. I went back to work (part-time) in part because I would have been a fool to pass up on my pension. I think you need to be a bit more pro-active - can you take a break from your mortgage? Opt out of pension or reduce payments on pension for a short period of time? Is it possible to freelance / work from home for some of the hours you work? Share a nanny / get a childminder?
And yes....it does look a bit daft if you say you work in finance but your maths doesn't (at first) appear to add up....

[Caboodle]

Ha - after possibly my longest post ever appear to have X-posted...typical

[FatimaLovesBread]

You mention looking for a part time role, have you actually asked your current employer for flexible working? Or are you just assuming you will need to return to full time?

Also, does your DH claim childcare vouchers too? If so that's another £243 to deduct from your childcare costs that you're paying

[dannydyerismydad]

Returning to work for me would only have been financially worthwhile if i had gone back full time, but for DH and I to both work full time with a 3 hour commute juggling childcare drop offs and pick ups would have been a logistical nightmare.

I don't regret being a SAHM, but don't fall into the trap that I did of thinking your childcare costs are zero if one parent stays at home. All the activities (and meals and snacks) that a nursery provides have to come out of your pocket. It's certainly cheaper than the £70 a day I would have paid to a nursery, but activities aren't always cheap.

[StealthPolarBear]

I don't understand how you are going to survive actually
Your DH pays for everything other than food and childcare
Your salary covers childcare and you have £63 per month left over
Which presumably you'll spend on food ~£15 per week for the family

???

And how will going part time help? You obviously earn slightly more than childcare so PT will just mean that net difference is smaller

[jenecho]

fudgeface her numeracy is fine, and she has explained all the deductions, you cant just use a mse calculator and think you know the ins and outs of someone's payslip.

I'm an accountant, earn 5k more than the op, and my net pay is only 2.8, after not only tax and ni, but student loan, pension and childcare vouchers. Oh and you are only allowed £124 as a higher rate taxpayer of ccv if you joined the scheme after they changed the rules.

op that being said, you need to look at the sl and pension deductions ( and ni i guess) as being a longer term investment. Although it is reducing your net benefit from going to work at the moment, you should take them out of the equation as irrelevant costs. Essentially the gain you make from going to work is £63 PLUS reduction in your student loan debt that will otherwise be earning interest, PLUS accruing pensions for the future, and of course the career benefits in the long term. Perhaps if you added those into the equation you would come up with a more palatable figure that would make you feel less bitter?

[ceeveebee]

stealth is right - whether you give up work or not, you will not have enough money to buy food. So you need to look at ways of reducing your household bills (remortgage to consolidate debts?) and if you decide to go back to work, look at ways of reducing childcare eg get a nanny (live in if possible), suspend pension for a bit etc.

[StealthPolarBear]

Surely they cannot survive on £60 per month for food?

[FredFredGeorge]

YABVU Because you are completely ignoring the massive pension contributions you're making - you're choosing to save all that cash, and then moaning about not having any spare money.

Maybe if you'd thought more about not getting a completely inappropriate mortgage and other debts you wouldn't've got in this position.

[jenecho]

stealth going part time might actually help, if she stopped being a higher rate taxpayer, which would probably happen if she went down to four days at c.£43k, given pension contributions aren't taxable and would push her under the threshold. Essentially that fifth day is the higher rate portion of her salary so on that day she is paying 40% tax, 2% ni, 9% sl plus ??% pension- that could reasonably add up to 60% deductions, which would mean she is only taking home c. £80 net a week for the fifth day, then paying out childcare and transport costs in excess of that (£130 per day at £2.6k nursery and £200 transport a month)

obviously its not that straightforward, because of discounts on nursery and travel if full time/ season ticket, but if it were, the op would be losing £50 a week/ £200 a month by being full time over doing four days.

OP you need to do some detailed calculations of the relevant opportunity cost of that fifth day- find out from the nursery what the cost difference is between four days and full time(assuming the weekly rate is discounted) and work out whether it is still worth having a season ticket at 4 days per week. Depending on where you live you might be able to get carnet tickets, or oyster payg might be cheaper than a season ticket. So then the question is whether the incremental cost of the fifth day childcare and travel is more than £80, in which case you would be better off asking for four days.

hope that helps

[StealthPolarBear]

Yes gpod point jen