to be suprised there is a "gifted and talented" board here

[fromparistoberlin]

sorry its really made me giggle

but seriously!? is this a major worry for people?

[Nerfmother]

Special educational need is defined in the sen code of practice (2001) but will be the same in new sencop as (from memory) having a learning difficulty that calls for special educational provision something something. Yes, I'm sure that on its own it's not an sen. Equally, a child or young person could have sen and be gifted.
SN is special need, so away from education.

[manicinsomniac]

*but not gut

[manicinsomniac]

nerfmother - are you sure it definitely doesn't fit an SEN profile?

I'll have to show my independent school system ignorance here gut what actually qualifies as an SEN and what as an SN?

Because the only truly gifted child I currently teach is also HFA, has OCD, is unable to empathise or see right from wrong and has moderate-severe EBD. This child has an ed-psych, an IEP, specialist lessons, mentoring and counselling. The child certainly seems SEN to me.

Or are all those things SNs/ANs?
(genuine ignorance not goadiness; we just put all children who need something different or additional to the majority on the same list at our school - from heart conditions to dyslexia to autism to giftedness - it's all termed SEND)

[Picturesinthefirelight]

her school don't think there is a need for a diagnosis as apart from a few social foibles and quirks its not causing her any problems unlike ds (were having to pay for a private Ed psych for him).

She's in a school full of children who share her obsession (dance & performing)

[Dawndonnaagain]

Pictures AS and HFA notoriously under diagnosed in girls, may well be worth checking out, I have a ds and two dds with AS.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

Oddly enough at parents vening at DDS new school (a school solely for talented children) her form tutor asked us if wed considered she may be on the spectrum.

It would explain such a lot socially.

We know ds has aspergers but whereas his obsessions are a huge problem at school etc in dd it was always glossed over in a oh well she's talented & focused and dedicated sort of way.

[TheWomanTheyCallJayne]

A nice post on the g&t board.

That's board, not bored as I put earlier

[Dawndonnaagain]

I too have tended not to discuss things out of school. I have three with ASDs they are all G&T. They struggle in many, many other ways. Ds2 is at uni now. He is getting consistent firsts in his first year. He has phoned from inside his trunk, under his covers, in the drawers under the bed and has to be guided out. Now the uni have dealt with the bullying and moved him, that is less frequent. However, we still have guide him through eating a meal most nights. Send texts daily reminding him to eat and drink. I have had what seems like a million texts a night at the time (one night was 164, I counted) but he gets firsts. So yes fromparis there is a need and I'm chuffed to pieces that you could see it, that makes it easier if you ever come across my children.

[Trubloff]

I've never posted on the G&T board but when I was 8, back in the mid 1970s I was identified as 'gifted'. It was purely based on my reading ability, which was supposedly that of a 14 year old. I was put up into the top groups for all subjects which was a mistake. Reading and English comprehension I was brilliant at. Maths and science subjects not so much. I seriously struggled in those classes but was still put in the top groups when we moved up to middle and high schools. It was pressure I did not need and I only got my maths O Level by going to extra lessons at lunch time.

My reading ability has improved year on year. I can read a book from start to finish in an evening. But don't ever ask me to do any mental arithmetic. And I've only ever been asked to score at darts once..... I work as a finance professional but am never expected to perform calculations on the spot. I have to read, analyse and evaluate stuff. Perfect for me!

G&T seems like a great initiative but it has to take account of all the DCs needs and not leave them struggling and miserable in other areas. I think that very few DC are gifted and talented in everything that they are expected to do.

[Jinsei]

No Gifted and talented in Scotland, I'd never heard of it till I joined Mumsnet. Doesn't seem to have damaged our education system in any way.

Maybe not, but I don't think Scottish schools necessarily cater that well for bright children. Certainly, my DNephew's needs have not been met, whereas my dd in England has had differentiated work and targets from the start. I realise that this may be partly due to a difference between individual schools.

[LadyBeagleEyes]

No Gifted and talented in Scotland, I'd never heard of it till I joined Mumsnet.
Doesn't seem to have damaged our education system in any way.

[Jinsei]

Most parents with very intelligent children are the opposite of 'boasty'. They avoid discussing their child's progress for fear of looking boasty or being met with genuine disbelief.

^^This.

The ones who boast, IME, tend to have children who are bright but not exceptional.

If you have a child who is truly gifted, you will probably be so eager for your child to be perceived as "normal" that you tend to downplay their abilities. I don't think many parents would want to draw attention to them.

[Catsize]

Not sure how this will come across, but I was G&T. Probably. But it was 1983 when I went to school a year early (Mum couldn't deal with me at home and GP recommended I go early as I 'needed stimulation' etc.), and this was not recognised as a special need.
Moved schools a year or two later, was put 'down' a class (to my true year group), as the school did not believe in having children ahead of their year group. This was a small village school. So, I felt like I was amongst much younger children, and was not told why.
All through primary, I set myself challenges and invented lessons and homework for myself in the school holidays. Net result? A kid who stood out, who the teachers didn't bother teaching as she could do it already (I just thought they ignored me as they didn't like me) and a kid who was bullied for being different.
I do not like the G&T label, for a variety of reasons, but can agree that there are 'issues' for parents and teachers of children who are deemed such.

[wobblyweebles]

I hadn't realised there is a G&T board here so am going to have a look at it.

They take the top 5% here and put them in what's called the Talents program. Not sure if it's nationwide or just our state.

[fromparistoberlin]

thats OK lljk

I like it when we can all resolve sans name calling

[superstarheartbreaker]

Let's celebrate gifted and talented types shAll we?

[lljkk]

I am sorry I snapped at you OP. but you can see it's an emotive topic.

[appletarts]

YANBU fromparistoberlin to wonder why it's a problem for some people. Gifted and talented is not classed as a SN in the same way as other additional learning needs. But yes run for the hills because the people on aibu at the moment are a bit, how shall we word it? Precious.

[OrangeMochaFrappucino]

I don't think my toddler is G&T so wasn't personally offended by the sneery OP...But as a probably middle class mummy who did attend NCT, I am a bit offended by the sneery apology - didn't come across as terribly gracious to me!

[FanFuckingTastic]

I think my daughter got a double whammy, because her dad has ADHD and I have Aspergers. She's just trying to learn to make sense of the world with a brain that doesn't quite fit the norm. My son has his own difficulties with being half deaf and that lack of concentration, he is scarily intelligent, but trying to mould that into something useful for him is going to take some doing.

[FanFuckingTastic]

In some cases I am fairly sure that G+T kids don't have SEN, but in others I'll beg to differ. I was without diagnosis for my entire school history, and I am now learning to cope with the fact that I have HFA. My children both show signs of being the same. Their intelligence comes with a flip side that means they have emotional and behavioural difficulties also.

My son taught himself to read in nursery, but he doesn't know how to interact socially very well and has a trigger hair temper when he doesn't know how to handle things. He also has difficulty with social communication, especially things like gratitude and says and does things that people can't understand, unless they know him like I do. He isn't rude, he is misunderstood because he finds expression difficult. He is very sensitive emotionally, and he needs to be in an environment where he can focus, which he doesn't manage very well. His teachers all express that he is dreamy and finds concentration difficult.

My daughter is behaviourally a bit of a nightmare. She wants what she wants and when she doesn't get it, she will behave in a very difficult way. I've had her brought home by the police aged four after working out how to get past extra locks and alarms put in place to stop her escaping. She went on a middle of the night jaunt and had (still has) no concept of danger or risk. She's destructive when she melts down, but socially she fares better than her brother because she is less passive and more in control. She does however do things that make people uncomfortable, too much physical contact, not respecting space, forgetting that there are other people in the classroom and everything does not revolve around her. She also barely sleeps and has a weird body clock, she'll happily wake at 2am and play for hours before school, then go to school and behave badly because she's tired.

They are both wonderful children, but they are also overwhelming. I had to give them to their fathers when I got made homeless, I'm disabled physically and I was getting to a point where I couldn't keep my daughter safe from herself any more. Intelligence is more than just being smart, it can come with difficulties, and since I've lived that, I aim to ensure my children don't turn out the same way as I do.

[Fleta]

Kids go up and down,truly gifted children are rare and many gifted or very able children like my DS are perfectly able to get on just fine without a lot of hoo ha.My ex teacher hat is on here.

I'm not sure who mentioned "hoo-ha".

My child doesn't know just how bloody gifted she is. I find it useful to have somewhere (actually on a completely different forum to MN but same idea) to chat to parents in a similar situation. Things as simple as finding reading matter than is intellectually challenging enough but emotionally her age - which is 7!

I suppose it is different for us because she's at private prep and they don't have to have "x" number of gifted and talented but have the man power in school to deal with it. For example she learns with her peers but has work from higher classes to do etc.

[TheWomanTheyCallJayne]

I found that I rarely posted on here about my ds and his struggles; asking about his IEPs and how to deal with the schools attitude, the moving schools (and house) and the subsequent joy and freedom of a suitable school because of threads such as this one. Though I allow that you've taken on bored what people have said op. It meant that we lost out on support we really could have done with. He's not actually on the g&t register as he is now at private but he was before.

On the other hand I have felt free to talk about my dd, her IEP and her struggles at the other end of the spectrum on other sections.

[LaFataTurchina]

Me too

I quite enjoyed it, we got to have an enrichment activity one afternoon every few weeks after school - usually a debate, or something in the science labs.

I wasn't so clever as to be bored at school, but it was nice to have something just for us geeky top set children.

More seriously though, I grew up on an estate and am the first of my family to go to university. My self-esteem probably really benefited from being labelled clever. When I got to university (red brick oxbridge reject type place) it really surprised me how few students from backgrounds like mine there were. Whereas I was lucky in that I had supportive parents and supportive teachers so I always saw school - university - fulfilling career as the natural progression.

[Ubik1]

There was a really interesting thread about G&T a few years where posters with extremely high IQs talked about their experiences. Fir many things had been quite tough - got into top university and then struggled with life, pressure, mental health. Of course these things are not exclusive to people with high intelligence by a long stretch but neither does it protect you from every day pressures.

One poster made the point that it was important G&T did things they were not good at, it taught them 'to learn' and resilience.

( I plan to make my fortune opening a 'Montessori School fur Gifted Children' in our area which is thoroughly bo'ho'd and bugabood. )