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AIBU?

to want DP to let me go on this course?

259 replies

Desperateretrainedmumof3 · 03/01/2014 17:34

I retrained nearly 2 years ago but haven't got a job. We're really struggling with money, we could even lose the house.

Anyway there's a course which teaches you how to get interviews for the field I retrained in, it costs £50 and is based in London (we don't live in London so travel costs but a return train is £20 then tube costs so maybe £80 total?

DP says its snake oil, taking advantage of people's misery, but it's totally legitimate. I feel so unsupported by DP. AIBU?

OP posts:
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janey68 · 05/01/2014 12:38

Id like to ask the OP just 3 questions. Of course, it's totally to her whether she wants to answer but it may be helpful in focusing thoughts of how to move forwards.

First, have you demonstrated to your partner how you can make savings over the next few months to cover the costs of the course? That's a good first step if you really believe this course will make a big difference, and will blow his argument about the finance of it out of the water.

Second, have you really marketed yourself as positively as possible for tutoring? Offering not just face to face evening/ weekend tuition, but also online tuition for A level/ undergrad students, demonstrating excellent knowledge of exam board specifications and showing how you are a good bet compared to tutors who may have more experience but perhaps lack your passion? If you've done this and had no response then I think it's an indication of how difficult it's going to be to get a permanent teaching post, because it sounds as if there's more than enough people out there already to meet the demand

Lastly, you say your house is on the market, so would you consider relocating somewhere with better employability and transport links? It wouldn't need to be a million miles away as your partner will presumably want to keep his job, but it would be a big step in making things easier long term, and you're lucky that your children are of an age when they are adaptable and you're not tied to a difficult schooling age yet. From the info you give (£30 total cost to get the train to London plus tube fares for the course) it sounds like you're not a million miles from the south east, so although you're rural, you must be within striking distance of large towns

Please don't feel obliged to answer, and of course it's totally up to you whether you'd consider relocating anyway: I'm simply throwing what I think are some key questions out which may help to focus your thoughts on how to progress from this point

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Jinsei · 05/01/2014 11:05

Sorry OP, but I agree with the majority here. The course might be brilliant, but if you have no experience since you qualified 2 years ago, I really don't think it will help you get a job. Job applications have to be about substance as well as style, and if you haven't got the right experience, it won't matter how you present it. Harsh, but true.

I also find it hard to believe that there is really nothing you can do to get some experience. Of course, there are obstacles, but I'm of the view that where there's a will, there's a way.

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marcopront · 05/01/2014 11:01

Something else to consider is when to apply. After the May half term the pool of people applying is much smaller. I returned to the UK from overseas and applied for jobs in June. I had interviews for almost all jobs I applied for, went to the first two and was offered both and accepted one of them so didn't go to any others. This was for Maths and in a big city but still shows what can happen.

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janey68 · 05/01/2014 10:39

I agree... But the home is already at risk, the OP makes that clear. Yet when several of suggested that with the house on the market, it seems an ideal opportunity to move and rent somewhere less rural, where work opportunities/ transport will be better, the OP complained that she didn't want the upheaval of moving away from where they live!

The key point I was making (and I think wood runner also) was not telling the OP to do exactly what we've done, because I agree that it's not a one size fits all. It's about opening ones mind to other options. The OP seems to have tunnel vision, that because she qualified as a history teacher 2 years ago, she has to secure a permanent teaching post within range of her very rural location, even though she has no transport, no means or gaining the experience in schools which people say she needs. There have been many helpful suggestions , from tutoring to relocating and the OP has blocked every singe one! I think the tutoring is still a possibility, because A level or degree coaching could be done on line remotely. If the OP is seriously saying she has tried all these and not had any take up then I'm afraid she needs to accept that at the moment, no one is prepared to pay for her specialist skills so she needs to consider other options. I realise that's very hard when Someone feels passionately that there is a specific job they'd love to do, but ultimately no one is owed a living doing the job they want, you have to put yourself out there and offer the skills which other people want.

Anyway, I hope the OP returns and considers some of the very sensible cost free or low cost suggestions which have been made. And like I said, if she passionately believes that this course offers the solution, then she'd demonstrate how she can save the costs of the course in a matter of weeks, because £80 for a days course plus travel is really remarkably good value, and then I don't see how her DH can put up any objection if there's no financial loss

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LIZS · 05/01/2014 10:36

I'd reiterate that Adult Ed might be a route to gaining some recent experience in the classroom and at times which suit you with minimal childcare issues. Contact your local provider (may be LA/County Council or may be subcontracted to a FE college). Course programmes for September will be drafted very soon and especially with the WW1 anniversary there may be demand before then if that is an area you can teach. It tends to be paid on a sessional basis and may not be long term but is something you could do alongside other jobs. If you worked in an FE college , say teaching A level, there may even also have an onsite nursery which you could use.

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Plateofcrumbs · 05/01/2014 10:11

On woodrunner and janey68's points: it's not just about the 'can do' attitude- the thing is here the financial risks and opportunity costs. I think the OP rightly understands that most of the things she could be doing to gain experience are extremely difficult for er to achieve right now.

Working for zero financial gain (after childcare/travel) is fine, but if they're on a financial knife edge they need to look at the opportunity costs - could she be doing something else with her time that would be profitable?

Transport is clearly a big factor here - she can probably only afford a second car if she were bringing in a good, regular second income. Getting a second car is a huge financial gamble for any employment opportunity which is less secure. Without a second car she can't take up many employment opportunities. A classic catch-22.

Yes she no doubt could be doing more...but she would have to be prepared to gamble her home and family's future on it. Not a risk I would take personally.

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Spickle · 05/01/2014 10:06

My son could really do with some dissertation help in his History degree - let me know if this could be of interest?

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marcopront · 05/01/2014 09:27

Janey I think you have been very helpful, as have many others. I think she is quite reasonable to want to go on the course, the crucial word is want. I also agree that the course is not the best option.

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HermioneWeasley · 05/01/2014 09:19

Excellent post by woodrunner

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Phineyj · 05/01/2014 09:12

Hi OP, this sounds tough and I agree with the people who've suggested getting cash and house sorted before worrying about career.

Re tutoring - just wanted to say that I and my DSis have had the most luck getting tutoring via agencies -- yes they take a cut but they find the clients, make sure you get paid (if a good agency) and said clients often recommend you to others if you are any good.

As you specialise in the older age groups: one thing that worked for me when sixth form students lived far away or when the drive there was inconvenient, was meeting them in a cafe to tutor. That would help with your transport issues. I have also done online tutoring -- commenting on student essays so didn't need to mess about with Skype. I found the clients through a subject organisation. Older students can often be tutored evenings and weekends.

This is the prime season of the year to start looking for tutoring - parents or students themselves will get in touch with agencies following disastrous mocks or ASs! If you could offer Politics or Economics as well as History GCSE and A level I'm sure you can find a couple of students. You don't have to be an expert -- it's the individual attention and careful reading of the syllabuses that matters. Exam technique is not subject-specific and some students have very little.

I also disagree with the poster above who said exam marking requires a lot of experience -- some exam boards are pretty desperate at the moment. No harm in applying. Again it's prime season as it takes time to fill in forms and sort references. You may have to be creative getting the head teacher reference but I'm sure it could be done - one from one of your placements?

I hope our luck improves soon and do consider cover supervisor roles in both primary and secondary - one of those got DSis out of a prolonged period of unemployment post-DC.

Do go back to your training organisation, use their library and contacts and keep in touch with staff at your placement schools.

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woodrunner · 05/01/2014 09:04

I can't help wondering whether the course will contain a lot of advice re experience that has been mentioned on these pages.

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RedHelenB · 05/01/2014 08:42

No Marco, she's maybe not being unreasonable to want to go on the course but her dp is totally right that it is unreasonable to spend £80 of money they don't have to go on a course where she can do things for free to achieve the same end result, ie get a teaching job!

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janey68 · 05/01/2014 08:25

Many of us have answered the OP, marco; we just don't agree with your verdict on it, and we've gone on to offer advice which goes beyond the scope of the OP because as with many threads it quickly became apparent that whether to go on the course or not is actually not the most pressing problem. Many of us felt that in a situation where their home is at risk, it is unreasonable to spend £80 of the household budget on a course right now.

However, one of my recent solutions was that as the OP is so convinced that attending the course will lead to her securing a permanent teaching post, she could demonstrate to her partner how she will shave £5 per week off the household budget for the next 16 weeks, which covers the course and travel. That way she can show that she can do the course and recoup the cost within 4 months. Hopefully the OP will respond later to this and the many other useful pieces of advice, particularly about marketing herself for tutoring which many of us have suggested

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marcopront · 05/01/2014 07:54

The answer to the question "AIBU to want DP to let me go on this course?" is no.

However the answer to the question "AIBU to think doing this course will mean I can get a job easily?" is yes.

As is usual on AIBU people having been answering a different question to the one you asked but I think there has been some very helpful advice.

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superlambanana · 04/01/2014 16:51

My mistake, Snargaluff - it's changed since I did it. The five year limit, it seems, is for doing daily supply without starting induction. Good news for the OP though that there's no time limit!

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Laquitar · 04/01/2014 14:33

I think that all this is overwhelming and you need to set priorities.
Right now my priority would be to make some cadh quickly. So i would look for casual jobs ideally combining that with some volunteer work relavant to teaching.

Once you make some cash and stand on your feet then you will be in a more powrrful potition to focus on your teaching career ad you will have some cash to invest i.e. childcare, car, courses.

I think you need to break it in 2 steps.
Walk first and then run.

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janey68 · 04/01/2014 14:28

I completely agree with woodrunner. Sometimes when people say they 'can't do something', what they actually mean is, they could do it but on balance they don't want to, or they would need to make some adjustments to their life to be able to do it.

Several times in my work life I've had people I know tell me they 'couldn't do' something I've done. The first time was when I returned to work when dd was 12 weeks old, and some of my friends actually said 'I couldn't do that'. Then when I had ds a couple of years later, and all my salary was going on childcare for the two of them, several people told me there's no way they would work for 'nothing.'

I'm not saying there's a right and a wrong way, but what is perfectly clear is that these people could have done what I did, but weighed it up and decided not to. Which is fine. But then it's no good complaining that this may affect your career.

I've also seen both the above views on MN countless times. Oh and also posters who say they aren't prepared to move from the locality they live in. It's horses for courses though isn't it. Not a case of right or wrong. But there's nothing wrong with people making suggestions, talking from experience about what's worked for them and basically just putting the idea out there that there are different routes one can take. Sometimes it's only when other people say, hey, I did this/ tried that, that it inspires us to have a go at things we wouldn't have considered

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condaleeza · 04/01/2014 14:11

TheoGriffs courses get very positive feedback so I would say definitely worth doing especially as on Saturday so presumably no childcare costs. As history is not really a shortage subject I think you need to be prepared to apply for jobs anywhere and move if necessary when you are offered one - since you are selling the house this would seem feasible especially if teacher's salary would be more than DHs and he could be SAHD in short term until he found another job. It is tough (I've moved long distances for teaching jobs twice, once with very young children after DH made redundant) but paid off in the end. I think people sometimes underestimate the benefits of courses which are often more than the taught input: meeting others and sharing experiences, boosting confidence etc.

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woodrunner · 04/01/2014 14:10

Paynoattention you are being sympathetic to the OP's current emotional needs, but lots of us who may seem to be putting pressure on her are also very sympathetic to her long term circumstances.

I'm sorry but I don't believe none of the solutions are possible. They just feel impossible because the OP is justifiably tremendously stressed and overwhelmed right now, and what she wants is for the right job to come along instead of looking at the interim steps she needs to take to ensure she is the best candidate for the job when it does come along.

An example is - she said she couldn't do a job because all the pay she earned would be taken up with childcare and travel costs. I know scores of women who work with no profit for a couple of years when DC are pre-school age, because they want to be in the current market. they know the pay will suddenly come in when the DC hit school age. But OP isn't prepared to do that. It's not impossible. It just doesn't suit her, and I suspect the can't do attitude is one that puts off any prospective employers. For every candidate who says it's too hard to get tutoring work, TA work, to volunteer etc, there are candidates who make it possible, who bend over backwards to get the requisite experience. That's who OP is up against, so all of us who are pushing her are doing so because we can see she needs a change of heart about what she has to do - not what is convenient or of immediate benefit but what she absolutely must do in order to reach her goal within the next few years.

I lived with a DH who reacted like OP to being made redundant. Nothing was ever quite right. The perfect job never came along. Meanwhile he did nothing for way too long. In the end, after about five years of faff, he started making small inroads into things which he'd previously dismissed and his career is making a slow but active turn for the better. IT's not easy. OP has to do some really difficult juggling, perhaps for no immediate financial gain if she wants to get the requisite experience for her field.

When depression hits, you think everything is impossible. It feels as though something has to be handed to you on a plate for it to be right. But life refuses to work for us like that, and the sooner we accept that and start making less than perfect moves in the right direction, which take far more effort and arrangement than we think we have energy for, that's when things go right.

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fedup21 · 04/01/2014 14:08

Lol, I didn't realise Theo was a woman!

I agree with sleepyhead though-you may find the course a) doesn't tell you anything you can't find out on TES and b) won't help you tailor your experience if you fknt actually have any.

It sounds a bit you are pinning all your hopes on this and it won't be quite the solution you wish for.

Nothing shows dedication like volunteering to get experience; that will also give you stuff to write about on your application.

I agree with your DH. What have you been doing since you qualified?

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Sleepyhead33 · 04/01/2014 14:00

I have been on one of Theo's courses. She is amazing, gives fantastic advice and a real confidence boost. I got the next DHT job I went for so am certainly a fan. However lots of the advice is around using the strengths/experience you have and how to make it fit the job you are going for. Since you don't have any recent experience and qualified a while ago I am not sure the course would be of much benefit to you.

As others have already mentioned it will be very much the same content as the 'getting your first job' posts she already has on TES.
Have you tried posting a message (addressed to her) in the job seekers area on TES. She might give you advice relating to your very specific situation.
Good luck

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Laquitar · 04/01/2014 13:48

OP i'm sorry you are going through this.
You have mentioned bar work and shops and care homes.if you are willing to do other jobs then would you considare nannying? It pays better than shop job and you can take your child with you especislly if you look after a two year old.
In your cv it will be a job with children.

Or you can ask the mums at school if they are looking for job too and perhaps you could collect their dcs with yours from school, take them to their house and use your teaching skills to help with homework till the parents come home?
Try to move near a city.
I really wish you good luck.

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Philoslothy · 04/01/2014 13:42

I am a history teacher who recruits other teachers, I work with NQTs and trainee teachers, one of the things I do is help them with the application process and career planning. Like you , I also retrained after having children.

On the one hand I think Yabu because it is very likely that you are not finding work because of a lack of experience not your application technique . However attending the course may give you a confidence boost and a touch of reality and therefore if you can sell things on eBay or raise the money in another way perhaps you should go. However i honestly do not think that the course contents will help you get a job, what might do is reinvigorate you. Understandably you are coming across as negative, stubborn and depressed - you may not actually be any of those things but that is the vibe you are giving and it is not helping, attending this course might help you shift that.

I think you shoud give yourself a deadline of September to find a teaching job and then accept that this is not going to happen. From experience of working with NQTs and trainee teachers , if they do not get a job of any description within a year of qualifying it is very difficult for them to get on the career ladder. You made it more difficult by having a child around the time of qualifying. I am expecting number five so I am not saying that you can't have a career and children - but timing is everything and you have fallen foul of that.

Many of the teachers that I have recruited have done the things that you say you can't and therefore you have that going against you as well as lack of experience.

I struggle to understand why you can't get a TA position if you have QTS and relevant experience - that would worry me because if you can't get a TA job, how likely is it that you will get a teaching job? I hope that does not come across as harsh, but I think in your financial situation is as dire as you suggest then you need to be realistic.

I think your best option is to offer tuition and to undercut those around you because that will be your selling point as others around you will have more experience. Perhaps the tuition could pay for the course.

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paynoattentiontothecat · 04/01/2014 13:34

Aw that's so lovely of you ilovesooty :)

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paynoattentiontothecat · 04/01/2014 13:33

Look, someone explaining they can't do something suggested does not make them ungrateful, rude or depressed.

I read a quotation once which said 'freedom is another word for nothing to lose' and there is some truth in that (some!) There are times when something suggested may be a good suggestion in a general sense but not for that individual.

When someone has said several times they can't do something, I think people need to respect that, and to stop repeatedly insisting the OP does it: I'm talking about a variety of threads now, not just this one.

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