to wonder how good heroin must feel

[complexnumber]

I've tried lots of recreational drugs over the years, but never heroin
But what is it about the 'hit' heroin gives you that makes you want it again... and again...

[Mignonette]

I don't think she gets it Gossip .

[CharlotteBronteSaurus]

lastest research indicates that "cannabis psychosis" is a prodrome of schizophrenia. at least 3/4 of people who experience "cannabis psychosis" go on to receive a diagnosis of another psychotic disorder (schizophrenia/schizoaffective disorder) within one year.

with the patients I see, the onset on heavy cannabis use generally predates any prodromal symptoms. recent studies do not support the "self-medication" theories.

[Mignonette]

I am talking of self medication in the very broadest sense, not just applied to one disorder (whether it be MI or any other disease/condition). I related it to Psychosis, yes but only in terms of 'may'. Neither POV can be definitively 'proven' as of yet sadly.

[Crowler]

I am not crazy about pot. I have seen it drain the life out of people.

[Mignonette]

Yes of course, the onset of cannabis use predates any psychosis in the general sense. W/ my patients, they have been using for quite some time w/ associated decline in self care and ADL's and then go on to display psychotic symptomatology.

However the use of a drug may well be linked by the patient with the easing of their symptoms whether that be an illusion or not.

[Crowler]

Mignonette- patients? I somehow missed this. Do you work with addicts?

[DownstairsMixUp]

I would try it if i knew i was going to die (terminal illness or whatever) just once. But would never try it ever really aside from that.

[Lazysuzanne]

Re Macdonalds, my point was that drug dealers if drugs were legalized drug dealers would probably look for some other lucrative but illegal source of easy money, rather than taking a regular job.

I'd imagine much of the pressure to keep drugs illegal comes from the criminal supply networks who profit from illegal drug sales.

[igotaway]

My son is a heroin addict. I have not read many of the posts, but AutumnFire's. She has described it so well.

My son is 23 years old and has been taking it for 2 years. I found out a year ago. His source is clean too.

He suffers from the most debilitating chronic depression and has had it most of his life. He has had counselling, ad's, you name it, he's tried everything to learn to live with it - nothing worked for him so he went straight to the top, he started self medicating by injecting heroin.

Heroin makes HIM feel like YOU on a normal day He can live his life without his brain screaming at him. By using, his pain and despair is relieved.

He doesn't steal, or prostitute himself for fun. This is not fun, it isn't used for 'fun'. It keeps him alive and that is all I care about. He will use it and then come off it for a few weeks and when he can stand no more of the chaos, he will go back to using.

I wish it was on prescription to be honest, and I know by saying that, many of you will think badly of me, but really heroin is the only thing that keeps him sane and alive.

[Lazysuzanne]

There was recently a guardian science podcast where opium was discussed as a drug preferable to current psychiatric drug
www.theguardian.com/science/audio/2013/nov/04/science-weekly-podcast-drugs-mental-illness

I thought it was very interesting and there does seem to be a bit of an anti psychiatric theme lately, leastways I've read a few books which had similar arguments

[Mignonette]

Crowler I have been an RMN for many years. I started off working w/ subs users and people with HIV. I also helped develop subs use education for our local prison back in the 90's. I am also a qualified Health Promotions Officer/specialist practitioner working in MH and Subs Use. Although I now work in forensic MH I obviously come across problems of subs usage w/ clients or their families although most of my clients/patients have Treatment Orders that have very strict conditions about staying off illicit or non prescribed substances because of the nature of their illness and offending history.

[complexnumber]

I honestly had no idea there would be so many responses when I started this thread, but it has been a real education.

I have only made 4 or 5 contributions so I certainly can't claim any credit, but I have been amazed at how calm the discussion has been. People have listened to the experiences of other posters without being judgemental, and have put forward their own ideas without being dogmatic.

I wish more threads could have you lot as regular posters

[Mignonette]

I thought that too Complex. I thought it pleasantly ironic too .

[Lazysuzanne]

Perhaps folk have a more sophisticated understanding of drug use these days?

[ChippingInLovesAutumn]

Mig

complex - this thread is like Mumsnet of old :)

[complexnumber]

Perhaps folk have a more sophisticated understanding of drug use these days?

That's true Lazysuzanne , but there has also been a tremendous amount of empathy expressed within these responses.

[traininthedistance]

I had morphine after a major operation and it dulled the pain a bit but no warm fuzzy feeling - I felt very sick (I was sick so much none of the anti-emetics they gave me worked) and had a nasty nightmarish feeling. A medic told me that not all people get a nice feeling on opiates - some just feel good, some feel good at the time but get nightmares and flashbacks later, and some feel sick and react badly to it including nightmares and hallucinations. So not everyone could be a heroin addict, as some just don't get the warm fuzzy feeling. I must definitely be in the last category! I was very keen to stay away from pethidine and diamorphine in labour as a result - my sister had diamorphine and liked it but my mum was violently ill when given pethidine in the 80s and I suspected I'd be sick too. I don't even like gas and air much - too dissociative for me. I have never taken any illegal drugs (or any strong prescription drugs apart from in hospital) as I don't like the feeling of not being in control. Though I have wondered what LSD is like - would be far too wary actually to try it though!

[SeaSickSal]

There are pushers. But it's not like Grange Hill where they are hanging round the school gates offering drugs to kids.

Most of the pushing is done by people already addicted to heroin. If they can set up a clientele they can sell drugs to then this will fund their own habit.

But given that they're already addicts and know what the drug is like they will know exactly who to target. The walking wounded, young people coming out of the care system, people with mental health difficulties, people without housing. These are just the kind of people who for many reasons will end up moving in the same circles as heroin addicts so they're doubly vulnerable to having it pushed on them.

But it is pushed, just because it's not being pushed on the high street or at the school gates doesn't mean it's not pushed. It's just that the people pushing it know their market so it's completely hidden from the view of mainstream society.

[Crowler]

igotaway I'm sorry to hear about your son. I wouldn't judge anyone who's dealing with chronic pain.

And, I would agree this has been a really interesting thread. Nice to see the nuanced, un-judgy discussion by near all.

[Mignonette]

Certainly in my experience, the supply can fluctuate to the degree that many Heroin users don't want too much competition. Many potential users/experimenters have to work to a certain extent to gain entry into the clique. I certainly never saw any deliberate or planned 'targeting' of those deemed vulnerable. In fact I saw the contrary. The older established sceners would try to persuade the curious NOT to try Heroin. Yes they wore their 'experienced user' image as a kind of 'wounded badge of honour' aware that in the eyes of the younger/less experienced ones, it gave them a kind of fucked up aspirational wasted elegance but still, I saw little evidence of actual targeting.

Of course I can only speak for where I lived, socialised, trained and worked. It may not be the same elsewhere.

[SeaSickSal]

Mignonette I know that not every heroin addict is pushing it on other people and you are right that many would discourage others from getting involved. But at the same time these are likely to be addicts who are the end of the heroin 'food chain' who are consumers only and not suppliers.

But targeting very definitely goes on. With respect to you, as you have been observing this in a professional capacity it's extremely unlikely that people who were involved in dealing would have been open with you.

On my experience it does happen, if people want to deal, they will create customers.

[Mignonette]

Seasick

I have been involved not only as a professional, sadly. I led a dissolute life before straightening out and training. I thought my experiences might help make me useful in the field.

But yes, I can only speak for my experiences.

Most of the real suppliers i encountered in both capacities were pretty well insulated from the end of the trail. There were so many layers w/ each one tipping in more glucose etc to increase their profits and most of them were selling to support their own habit/consumption.

[complexnumber]

I'm sorry to dip in as a 'light weight' again, but I seem to remember being given morphine as a relief from pain when I was about 13 and had broken a bone during a rugby match.

Is it still current practice to give a child morphine?

My memory of it is sitting in the car park completely zonked, but fancying every nurse that walked by (nothing unusual in a 13 y/o boy's mind there), and assuming they fancied me (maybe less normal)...

[Mignonette]

Complex Aw poor you- that must have been a little discombobulating.

I'm not sure what the absolute policy is for children per se but my 16 year old daughter was on a diamorphine pump PCA (Patient controlled Analgesia) after her 13 hour surgery for Kypho-Scoliosis (some years ago now). She remained on it for three days until her chest tubes were removed. However she was safely off her legs, confined to bed. Generally after such strong analgesia they keep you in unless parents/guardians can ensure you don't stagger in front of a bus/fall down stairs post discharge.

It is a good pain killer for distress because of its dissociative properties. However the hallucinations that some people suffer from cannot be predicted in advance of administration. Nor the innocent teenage lechery

[HotDogSlaughter]

When I had DD I suffered a massive PPH. A huge amont of blood drained from my body in a matter of seconds. As I was drifting out of consciousness I felt like someone was giving me a warm fuzzy cuddle and everything felt peaceful and proper. I was nearly dying!

I later discussed this experience with a aneasitist ( sp) Dr who said that is very much what heroin feels like.
I have no clue why this is - it wasn't synthetic it was just me!??