To Think This Is Discriminatory?

[ClementineKelandra]

Dd1 is 14 and ds is 12. They both attend the local secondary school.

They both do well at school and are both on or above their targets. (I'm not boasting, this is relevant information)

My income is very low and so they receive free school meals.

On Friday they were both withdrawn from class at different times to speak with the school 'Progression Manager' Several other children were also removed to speak with him too.

They were informed that as they are on free school meals they were being monitored to see if they might need extra help with their work.

Basically there is an assumption that because they're from a poor family they might be a bit thick!!

I'm stunned that they are linking poverty with poor intellect!!

[EduCated]

It does sound very poorly executed. Certainly take that up with the school. I fell under a similar scheme when I wa younger, but they helped me visit universities and arranged a mentor from the university in my home town. It was certainly a lot more positive than the meetings your DC had, by the sound of it.

[NotDead]

awesome! Just think what they could achieve if they were rich! take advantage! scholarships in public school! pre-entry interviews with top tier unis!

[x2boys]

you can never win my three yr old is almost definatley is autistic we are awaiting a diagnosis but was not entitled to two year old nursery thing because we are not on benefits he is not toilet trained not speaking [although this is slowly getting better ] these schemes are all very well in principle but I think they need to be more child centred and look at the needs of the child not what statistics say! I mean ok he is not under privileged but he is a vulnerable child due to his problems and I believe nursery at an ealier age would have helped him alot

[WilsonFrickett]

For the record, I think the way they've gone about it sounds appalling. But it's not discriminatory.

[candycoatedwaterdrops]

Perhaps they went about it badly but the statistics don't lie. YABU. They are monitoring your children, not forcing them to accept any extra help.

[ClementineKelandra]

x2boys I'm sorry you're struggling to get support for your son. The whole system is crazy! It should be more child centred.

I've spoke to the member of staff who met with my children and he has confirmed my ds's story.

Surely this would be better implemented by quietly keep an eye on the relevant children and stepping in only when support is needed.

[YoureAllABunchOfBastards]

Not read the full thread, but

Your kids are Pupil Premium kids because they get FSM. The school gets extra money for them and will be asked how it is spent. They need to provide a paper trail of intervention strategies.

So, my very brightest Y9 is Pupil Premium and I have to say what extra I do for her - she needs no extra, but I have to document it.

[x2boys]

agreed clementine statistics only work up to a point and by the way I think the way your childrens school handled was completely out of order if there is an issue with a child it can be done far more senstivly and lets look at the kids not what sodding statistics say!

[redexpat]

Surely that's positive discrimination - clumsily done, but essentially trying to make sure that all children are on a level playing field by targetting extra resources at children who have a higher risk of growing up in poverty, whihc will affect their health and performance at school. Of course there are lots of underperforming children who don't get fsm, but it is the measure that is used. If I was you I'd milk the system to see what extra help I could get for my kids.

What message are we giving them? That it's not ok to fail because of factors beyond your control, and if you need help it's there.

[Tailtwister]

I think they are reasonable to check if the connection between poverty and needing extra help has been proven. However, surely they don't need to pull children out of class to do that. Why can't the teachers look at the list and give feedback on their own pupils. That why nobody is being singled out but those who need the help get it.

[TigOldBitties]

It does seem like it hasn't been handled very well but I think its a situation of the road to hell being paved with good intentions rather than an act of malice.

To pick you up on an earlier point, when my DS1 was at school, around 8 years ago, both he and I were informed that as a young black boy residing in the inner city he would be subject to monitoring because this group apparently under-perform or fail to achieve (can't remember the exact phrasing). Seemed very strange to me as I'd think the majority of young black boys live in cities in this country, and secondly he had done very well at primary school and on his exams at the start of year 7.

It wasn't classed as being discriminatory, it was at the time classed as being helpful. I think since then statistics have changed and white boys are now considered the failing group.

[sparklekitty]

FSM is a marker for educationally vulnerable children.

Trends in the 90s showed some children eligible for FSM struggled. I, personally, think its a bunch of bollocks! I've taught very wealthy children who have had no home support and struggled an also very bright children with lots of support on FSM.

They're probably due an ofsted inspection and they're trying to demonstrate support for 'vulnerable' groups

[sashh]

Basically there is an assumption that because they're from a poor family they might be a bit thick!!

You have no evidence for that what so ever. If your child(ren) needs a tutor for GCSE can you afford it? Would you be happy if the school provided it?

There are loads of reasons (other than being thick) children from poorer backgrounds find it harder to study.

Some are carers, some share a room with a much younger sibling (or, in the case of one student I taught her older sister and sister's baby), some have no where warm and quiet to do homework, some live in houses with no books.

The school doesn't and often can't know these things, the only measure they have is FSM.

There is evidence that children on FSM do not attain their full potential for numerous reasons. None of these may apply to your children but they will apply to some in the school.

If the school has £x000 pounds to spend on children on FSM how do you want it spent?

[eggyweggies]

I get it. I was eligible for FSM. I ended up getting a 2:1 from Oxford. My mum now has a phd. She was poor because she was a single parent, not because she didn't know how to educate her child

I know it can be an indicator of underachievement. But it's incredibly insulting to people to think that a low income= dumb.

[BrokenSunglasses]

And this is why the pupil premium is ridiculously divisive, unfair, and pointless.

Target extra funds where it is needed, rather than where parents are low income. There are too many exceptions to the rule for it to make any sense whatsoever.

[Owllady]

I understand where you are coming from tbh
i read that article about women in their 20s being more likely to have a child that dies this morning and my bloody pressure went through the roof
It particularly focused on those with disabled/chronically ill children too which just touched buttons with me having had a severely disabled child at 22, another (NT) child at 23 and another before I was 30
I don't like to be pigeonholed
most people don't!

[NotYoMomma]

I dont see how a teacher having to do extra documentation on every single pupil on poverty and provide evidence as to what extra they have done for them is the best use of time tbh, as the teacher above said she even needs to do this for her 'brightest year 9 pupil'

what about those pupils who may be struggling but have NO resourse or extra help because they arent on fsm

[Owllady]

oh and btw, I have a degree too, as does my husband (we are both from poor backgrounds) though what I posted about above, they suggest young mums in their 20s don't have further education either - shame on the bbc

[ZingWantsCake]

I can see how it is hurtful but discrimination is unfair adantage given based on whatever criteria.

this is not unfair, they tried to help.
in fact if I were you I would say yes to any extra help.
tutoring is so expensive, your children will be helped at the level they need.

so just say yes! if then they are assessed and they are "too clever" I'm sure the school can decide to give their places to someone else.

there's a Hungarian saying " If you are given (something) take it, if you are beaten run away!"
think about it!

(hugs as you feel hurt)

[Owllady]

ys i agree regarding calling it discrimination

[stardusty5]

Even children on FSM who are doing exceptionally well may benefit from some extra support from school.
Schools are in such a hard position sometimes- criticised if they do help, criticised if they don't.

Schools recieve Pupil Premium funding which MUST be spent on students in reciept of FSM or who are in care. I think that this sounds like a very transparent way of establishing with the children what may be needed.

[stardusty5]

An example of how it can help an excelling student might be providing revision guides, or opportunities to attend trips to FE colleges for instance. Our school provides transport for students whose parents can't pick them up following revision sessions/ extra curricular activities (we are in a rural area where public transport is poor).

[GangstersLoveToDance]

The logic is sound. It is proven that pupils on fsm are statistically less likely to achieve their potential. This is proven in singular cases, and school level (schools with a very high % of fsm pupils often do less well than those in more affluent areas)

If the way it was executed left your child embarrassed or upset then that needs discussing - but not the scheme in general. Hitting decent marks is NOT the same as achieving your potential.

You sound very sensitive over the issue tbh and it's a YABU from me.

[RevoltingPeasant]

The logic is sound but you'd have to be incredibly naive not to think children would feel singled out for this.

Children totally notice disparities in income/ ability/ etc, and if a child is being pulled out of class to go off with the 'special teacher' or 'for a chat with Mr Soandso', of course others will notice and most children would feel embarrassed by this, I think.

There must surely be a way to do this that doesn't breed resentment.

Also, it's not like the OP kicked off about this and then lo and behold, her DC were upset. She feels like this because her DC came home and told her they didn't like it. Which says to me that it was handled clumsily, otherwise they would never have come home talking about it in the first place.