To think they should at least be allowed to eat inside?

[Yakky]

DS1 has just started at secondary school. He always took a packed lunch when at primary school so was very excited when I told him he could now stay for school dinners.
However when he came home last week claiming he was starving I asked what he had had for lunch. He said "a sausage roll". When I told him to stop wasting money & go for a proper meal (with a plate & cutlery), he said there weren't any and that everyone had to eat out of a plastic tray outside in designated eating areas.
TBH I laughed as I thought he was joking.
He forgot his pe kit last week so school phoned & asked me to meet him in the school grounds to pass on his kit. It was raining so ,as it was lunchtime, I was suprised to see so many kids standing outside in the rain eating chips, burgers, hot dogs, etc out of plastic trays.
When I finally caught up with DS he was sitting on a bench with his friends getting wetter by the minute, all trying to eat soggy food (junk) out of a tray.
When I asked why they were all not sitting in the dining room they all replied they weren't allowed to. Apparently, there is no dining room as such just a glorified kitchen area where food is sold then taken away outside to be consumed.
I was not impressed at all.
Are all schools like this now? What happened to real school dinners?
Are they expected to eat outside in winter?
I would never have believed this if I hadn't seen it for myself.

[englishteacher78]

Gove removed many of the rules for academies.

[nennypops]

I think you should report the school all over the place - the council's Education Department and Health and Safety, Ofsted, you name it. Get Jamie Oliver in on the act, you never know, he might go for it. Tell the local papers.

[TigOldBitties]

-Showers thing seems normal to me. We never had showers at school and my DCs have never been given that option. I haven't hear of schools really dong them for a while.

-The school my DSs attended/currently go to, had that type of food until very recently when it was reopened as an academy. I know that a few schools a bit further away from us still do but they aren't under pressure to change (friend works with them), because its not a deprived area. My immediate local area and our school are in a deprived area and so there is lots of pressure about providing decent food.

-Coat rule is quite common amongst the schools I know.

• Lots of schools don't have enough space for all pupils to dine at once, my DSs school also doesn't have the room/quantity of tables and chairs for them to all sit in the dining hall (around 2500 pupils), but they do let them stand around the edges. It sounds like this school is taking the piss quite a bit. Forcing them to go outside is unfair, especially in the rain. You should definitely complain.

[Yakky]

I really don't get it as they were classed as very good in their last ofsted report and the Head has claimed that some of their previous pupils went on to Cambridge & Oxford.
Do academys have a different set of rules then?

[YoureAllABunchOfBastards]

Report, report, report. Your child is not safe at this school.

[englishteacher78]

It really does sound like this school is breaking every guideline going and I believe you said it's not an academy?
You must complain to the governors and then, if no joy, the LEA.
I would really hate teaching soggy children who were full of energy drinks. School blazers smell very similar to wet dog in the rain.

[Yakky]

They aren't allowed to sell energy drinks. Well DS came out of school in the first week carrying a half empty bottle of what can only be described as a luminous green apple fizzy drink.
It was the second one he had bought that day!

[noblegiraffe]

They aren't allowed to sell energy drinks.

www.childrensfoodtrust.org.uk/the-standards/the-food-based-standards/final-food-based-standards/healthier-drinks

[Goldmandra]

It's all about money, I know, but I need warm clothes, a space to organise myself and a proper lunch in order to work, so why would I assume that a teenager wouldn't?

I have to wonder how they think these teenagers can concentrate in the afternoon classes when they are freezing cold and soaking wet

[merrymouse]

This is all wrong, wrong, wrong.

Either children are mature enough to be treated like adults (have lockers, eat in civilized space, wear coats) or they need to be supervised until they can behave like adults while they eat in a civilized manner, dress appropriately for the weather and use lockers.

It's all about money, I know, but I need warm clothes, a space to organise myself and a proper lunch in order to work, so why would I assume that a teenager wouldn't?

[manicinsomniac]

Wow. This sounds very similar to the secondary school I went to in the mid 90s to early 00s. Outside eating in the cold and rain, tuck shop with a hatch, polystyrene trays and a choice of soggy chips with gravy/cheese and greasy burgers.

But even back then the school also had a proper dining hall which we could go in if we wanted to. The shit location and nutrition in the tuck shop was an unfortunate option, not the only choice.

Oh, and said greasy tuckshop was closed in 1999 along with the introduction of chip free Tuesdays and the healthy eating rewards scheme.

Your son's situation is positively archaic!

[Twattybollocks]

I can well believe the rule about no coats. Due to theft of coats off pegs, lack of lockers (bullying and being broken into) kids at my local secondary are only allowed to wear blazers, not coats. A friends daughter goes there and I collect her one day a week, they came out last year in the bitter cold and snow in thin polyester blazers over jumpers and shirts, blue with cold. They were all wearing those hat/scarf/glove jobbies as apparently they are allowed. Absolutely ridiculous.

[nennypops]

Could be worth talking to environmental health bods at the local council. It seems to me there are a number of safety issues here - e.g. what supervision is there, how do they ensure children with allergies don't come into contact with what they're allergic to, what do they do about food that falls on the ground, how hygienic is this system?

Is this an Academy? I can't see a maintained school being able to get away with this.

[YoureAllABunchOfBastards]

The security issue at least merits a letter to the HT.

I would be fuming about the food choices, too. Is it an academy? If not, it should be following rules about food standards.

[Fairenuff]

Showers are optional at my dcs school but they are allowed to put their coats on whenever they are outside, if they want to.

[Yakky]

It appears that each school seems to have it's own rules and regulations, whereas I was under the impression that, along with a shared national curriculum, there would also be a shared rules guideline.
DS is allowed to take a coat to school but only to be worn outside and there are no lockers or hangers, etc, so the DCs have to carry them with them all day. It's not a large school (about 670 pupils in all) and is set in large sprawling grounds with the classrooms spread out so theres a lot of walking from one class to another. They are not allowed to wear their coats when in transit from one lessen to another.....only at lunchtime and when they leave at the end of the day.
They do seem to have some very strange rules.
Another thing I though was a bit strange was, when DS had his first PE lesson, I sent him with a towel as I assumed they would have showers in the changing rooms. I remember we always had to have a shower after PE lessons. Apparently not, they have PE first lesson on Fridays then spend the rest of the day unwashed and sweaty. Nice.

[Goldmandra]

Yes I am certain it was the case because I checked myself with older students including the head boy when she started. I saw the children eating outside in rain and sleet many times when picking up my DD during the day and they never had coats on. We also used to get reminders in the newsletter about the no coats rule.

I had battle after battle with the school to get my DD's SEN support. And, as she was usually allowed to eat in the nurture room due to her additional needs, this wasn't a battle I had the energy to take on. It was a true reflection of the school's attitude to the pupils and the behaviour in school reflected that and appeared to justify it.

It's a dreadful place and I am very, very glad she has moved on. Over my dead body will my DD2 attend the school when the time comes.

[MrsMook]

Is it a newly built school? Wondering if PFI arrangements mean they don't want food indoors to compromise cleaning and maintainence issues ar additional cost.

Sounds awful. I've supplied in umpteen secondaries and not come across arrangements that poor in location of eating, nor choice of foods.

In the 90s when my school's kitchen and dining facilities were being refurbished, KS3 had 3 portacabin classrooms for food service and dining. The food choice was restricted to hot snacks, potatoes and sandwiches as it was all prepared off site and limited space and infrastructure for more elabourate meals, but this was easily a decade before the guidelines were bought in. I've not known a school flout those guidelines- teaching teenagers filled with junk and e numbers is not a pleasant way to spend an afternoon!

[Darkesteyes]

odd (can't think of a situation where an adult would have no alternative but to eat their lunch in the rain),

I can merrymouse I was made to eat lunch out in the rain when i was sent on a training course by the Jobcentre. By Pelcombe and then by Seetec.


Think this is awful. Whats suppossed to happen in winter Ridiculous.

[ukatlast]

Goldmandra - glad for your son that he has now left. It sounds like he went to school in Sparta lol!

[ukatlast]

Goldmandra 'That meant that for one hour, ten minutes of every school day they had to be outside, coatless whatever the weather happened to be. If they were caught with coats on they received a detention. Luckily some of the teachers allowed them to flout this rule but only some.'

That beggars belief and is probably in contravention of all kinds of legislation including basic human rights to shelter/protection from the elements.
Are you sure this is true and your son isn't choosing to go coatless? A new head at my son's school wanted coats away in bags or lockers during school day (also daft imho - some coats are bulky) and my son told me the school had banned coat wearing.
I took it up with new head by email and was reassured that he had exaggerated somewhat.
Goldmandra - if your facts are correct, parents should be fighting that one on kids' behalf, it is ridiculous.

[Goldmandra]

This may be more common than you think. In the school my DD has just left (thank goodness) not only did they have to eat outside, but they weren't allowed to wear coats during the school day.

That meant that for one hour, ten minutes of every school day they had to be outside, coatless whatever the weather happened to be. If they were caught with coats on they received a detention. Luckily some of the teachers allowed them to flout this rule but only some.

[mumofweeboys]

That sounds awful. Could you write a letter to board of governors? Surely the school have an assembly hall where kids could eat.

[Yakky]

Well my update is pretty much what honeybeeridiculous says.
There is provision inside, but not enough for everyone, and the cooked food is sausage rolls and pizza slices, reheated in a microwave.....bloody appalling actually.
And yes, I was allowed to wander round the school as the teacher who stood next to me for 10 mins inside the school gates, checking pupils passes as the left the school grounds, never asked me who I was or what I was doing there. When I decided to move away from the entrance area in order to look for DS in the non existent dining she never tried to stop me. So am now left wondering just how secure the site is overall.
They seem very happy to stop pupils without a pass leaving but a complete stranger just wandering in seems okey dokey.

[YoureAllABunchOfBastards]

There are a number of things wrong here.

1. The apparent lack of indoor facilities
   
2. The selling of energy drinks on site
   
3. The fact that they let you into the site to wander around unsupervised.
   
   The last one would have them failing an OfSTED inspection, for a start. And the energy drinks - we have banned kids from bringing them into school after a kid was hospitalised with irregular heartbeat from excessive consumption.
   
   Contact the Head, ASAP, and raise these issues.