To tell dd she can't go on school trip

[EvaBeaversProtege]

Dd (11) has already been on one residential this term. It was a class bonding trip as she has just started yr8 in a new school.

We had to pay £30 for the trip, even though it was labelled a 'residential' they didn't stay overnight, we're home by 4pm.

She came home last week, said she'd joined a sports team & as part of the bonding they had been asked on a residential. Same place, same cost, just with different people.

At that time I told her if she wanted to go she would have to do mOre chores in the house to earn the cost as we've been paying money left, right and centre for the last three weeks.

She agreed.

Day one, no chores, too much homework.
Day two, only one (unload dishwasher) and she didn't put the dishes away
Day three, again, too much homework yet when I enter the study she's glued to YouTube.

Anyway, in my mind she didn't keep her end of the bargain, but yesterday it all hit the fan.

She has a mental block re: maths. Says she can't do it, hates it, her maths teacher 'hates her' and gets her name wrong all the time (have said teacher has so many new names to learn, cut her some slack)

But it's no coincidence that DH is amazing at maths, part of his job etc... So yesterday when dd was saying "daddy you'll have to do my maths for me, I font understand it" I said l

[greenfolder]

i dont think you are being harsh- she is just not used to being held to account. my dds would try the same stuff.

maths is easy to call her bluff. offer to write in her book that she didnt understand it and can the teacher go over it? that usually brings those that can but cant be bothered to their senses- dont want to be embarrassed in front of the teacher/their friends.

if she is rude to you and wont muck in- very valid reasons for no trip. next time she will know you mean it. in the meantime have a proper conversation at a quiet time. you expect her to pick up her towel, put stuff away because she is old enough/should be- but you and husband need to be on the same page

[sashh]

I think with the maths, get dad to help with the concept, with work sheets that are similar from elsewhere, then she should do the home work on her own.

If she is having genuine difficulty she will be encouraged as she will be doing the maths homework herself, if she just wants dad to do it she will start doing her homework.

I think you are right re not going on trips if she hasn't earned them but I think earning can be chores, jobs, working hard at school, finishing all homework on time etc etc.

[EvaBeaversProtege]

Hi all, OP here.

Thanks for all the advice & I can see where those who say I'm U are coming from.

We're in NI, she's y8 & they sit transfer (11 plus) in p7 (last yr of primary)

The thing with the maths (and I'm not making it up) dd can do it. It wasn't even maths as such, she had to write down correlations positive & negative ones - no numbers involved. Ie: sunny weather/sun cream sold etc...

Anyway I'm getting off the issue:

Dd is my only daughter, she doesn't have regular chores, she doesn't even lift her towel after a shower (my fault I know) so the point of her having chores wasn't to earn money, it was simply for her to 'earn' the trip, which isn't essential.

I have no objections whatsoever about her asking her daddy for help, he generally does, the only reason I put that in the post is as its what caused her to tell me to shut up.

Thanks for reading & taking time to advise, I'm on phone so can't name check, but I'm going to relook at how I relate things to each other. It began with 'do the chores, earn the trip' a) she didn't do the chores (which weren't big, unload dishwasher, bring washing from her room which she should be doing anyway)

I do know changing to big school is a big thing, but she's a good mixer & has had no issues.

(whilst typing this she said mammy I told E & J I couldn't go on the trip as we had an argument & I spoke to you in a rude way. E said she wouldn't be allowed to go either)

[Saffyz]

GCSE that is.

[Saffyz]

There's a new requirement that children who don't achieve at least a Grade C in English and Maths will keep studying them until they are 18.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-23925033

[FrauMoose]

If I had been unable to ask my father for help with my Maths O-level I probably would not have passed. I had a teacher who was basically not very good at finding different ways to explain things, but had been put in a set with people who seemed to be picking up concepts without difficulty. As I was quite able I felt quite panicky at suddenly not knowing what I was meant to do. Although I listened and asked the teacher for help - the teacher just thought I was being awkward and difficult.

I do think parents need to be able to help children when there are difficulties of this type - supporting them with the homework and also liaising with the school when a child is struggling. If I was the original poster's daughter, I could imagine getting really angry if one parent told me I couldn't ask the other one for help.

[Saffyz]

Maths is important, but I understand the problem of not being able to learn if you really don't get on with the teacher. Could you say she can go on the school trip, as long as she agrees to have some sit-down maths tuition from your DH?

[PresidentServalan]

I would definitely stop her from going - you made an agreement and not only has she not bothered to do her part but she shouted at you??? No way should she go!

[FredFredGeorge]

You told your DD that she couldn't ask her father for help with her maths homework? YABU.

[geekgal]

That's true, ivykaty, I was more using it for emphasis, most kids I knew in the states didn't get their first jobs until they were 14 or 15 - I just lived for a while in farming country so you could get paid work mucking out much younger than that. You could even drive at age 10 so long as it was only a tractor!

[ivykaty44]

geek I was brought up in the US, lots of kids had actual paying jobs at age 11, and they still had chores at home,

I was just explaining that paid work for children is not something you can do in the UK due to regulations

[geekgal]

Yeah, my youthful cleaning skills were pretty shoddy initially, especially when I wanted to get it done quickly so I could go and listen to tapes in my bedroom (wow am I old!)!!

[daftdame]

Ditto cooking. Liked the food much better actually.

[daftdame]

geekgirl I actually found it easier when I left home. No nasty shocks, parents arguing over the standard of washing up / cleaning the my room or kitchen. No telling me to do stuff when I needed to study.

I lived in student accommodation and standards could get quite low . We all managed though and no one got ill through it.

[whatever5]

If she is 11, isn't she in year 7, not year 8? Has she just started secondary school? I think that you're being far too harsh. Starting a new school is stressful and being in a new environment is tiring. Adding chores during the week on top of homework at this stage is unreasonable full stop IMO.

Your DH shouldn't be "doing" her maths for her but it would certainly be a good idea to help her understand it better. I can't understand why you would stop him doing that. You're not doing her any favours.

[wigglesrock]

I don't think YABU. This particular trip isn't part of the regular school day - it's an additional trip linked to a school sports team. Additional trips = having to be earned.

She should be doing jobs around the house anyway. Fwiw I was terrible at maths, I never got it, it was always a struggle for me. My dad's really good at it, he used to do my homework with me on a seperate piece of paper, talk me through it, take the paper, bin it and then I had to do the homework in my book (no computers in my day ).

I have a lot of sympathy for your dd re the maths, but not about shouting shut up.

[Sirzy]

'chores' should be a general part of being a member of the household though not in return for being able to go on a school trip. Children need to learn (IMO) that the jobs need doing so you do them not you only do it if there is something in return.

[kali110]

Plus i dont see anything wrong with doing chores in return to go on a trip. She'll learn she has to work for things she wants.
Btw out of interest is it that hard now for a 16 to get a job?i got one as soon as i turned 16 .

[kali110]

Yanbu. You know your dd best.you told her she had to do chores. She didnt. She didnt do her homework(maybe she was struggling,) but youve pointed out that you feel she may have been trying to get your dh to do it.
Get the feeling she knew she was in the wrong and threw a tantrum..
After screaming in your face i def would say no trip thats completely unacceptable. There will allways be trips, but agree she needs to know there are consequences of her actions..

[Crowler]

I totally agree geekgal. I am guilty of not imposing many chores on mine, because they do a horrible job.

Apart from emptying the dishwasher, I find it hard to find jobs they're capable of.

[SanityClause]

IMO, household chores are things we all have to do. they are jobs the household needs done to allow it to run smoothly. So, they shouldn't be used to "earn" things.

WRT the trip, it doesn't seem to make sense that she gets it by doing work. What money is saved by her doing household chores that would free it up to do the trip?

Or is what you are saying "If you take it less for granted that I will do all the household chores, I will feel much more likely to want to put my hand in pocket to provide you with extras like school trips."

In which case, say it! Let her know her actions have consequences. She wants to sit watching YouTube, rather than doing a few household chores? Fine, but you will be less likely to want to fund school trips, if she's already had the evening off to watch YouTube, while you were scurrying around loading the dishwasher.

As regards the maths, I think it is lovely at your DH can and will help her. Thats what parents do. But perhaps you need to talk to him about making sure he shows her, but leaves her to do the work, if you are concerned that he will just do it all for her.

Yesterday, DS told me he had 12 really hard maths questions. We looked at the first one. He realised that he did understand how to do it, and that the rest were all the same. We discussed it for a bit, then he got down to them and finished them in no time.

[geekgal]

I'm aware of that but chores are set by parents, not employers - it just generally makes for a better work ethic later in life, most kids I know who had them didn't have such a nasty shock when they left home as to what it all entailed! I truly believe chores are as important as school, it teaches you how to look after yourself, schedule tasks, the importance of cleanliness, even managing budgets when they get older and you task them with doing the weekly shop! I had to do chores, I didn't get any rewards for it, it was just something that I had to do, I want to make sure my kids realise that too.

But this is about the OP, and I think you're right that she needs to decide what she should be doing first and then try to stick with it, it means there is less chance of any kind of backlash from a stroppy preteen who is clever enough to pick holes

[daftdame]

On another note if you want to test how genuine her difficulty with homework is, if you really think she is wrapping her Dad round her little finger, why not offer to go in and see her maths teacher with her to get to the bottom of the issue?

In any case if her dad cannot help ie show her how to do the work, not do it for her, you will have to do this anyway.

[ivykaty44]

geekgal - in the UK it is hard to get a job until you are 16 due to insurance, shops etc will not and are not allowed to employee people if they are not insured to work as it is against the law.

[ivykaty44]

When I told her she wasn't going on trip she asked if she still had to do the chores!!!

you are being outsmarted by an 11 year old

your dd is smart and you want her to do well, you set some rules about if you go on the trip you have to do chores, you then changed the rules and made it homework as well.

it is fine to set rules, but think about the rules before you set them - will they work, liek your dd has worked out, now the chores don't have to be done as she is not going on the trip

don't change the rules half way through the process - it is just unfair and means that the rules are not real rules at all as your dd still may not get to go if she follows the rules as the rules may change

if your dd went on a trip last week and it is to much money to spend on a trip this week, then say so and say you can't do both.

Actions do have consequences, if you don't do your homework you get a detention. One chore one action. You have given several actions and frankly to many for one very big carrot and at this age it is far to much carrot for to many actions and it has failed miserably