to wonder why gentle parents are often anything but?

[ohforblardysake]

I breastfeed, use cloth nappies, co sleep, baby led wean, etc etc. It's what feels right for me but I recognise that everyone does it differently and what works for one doesn't work for everyone.

I joined a few gentle parenting sites on Facebook and have one by one unliked them over the last few months as they are all so horrible! I hoped to see from them just posts and articles about things that interest me in terms of bfing, cosleeping,etc, but instead they are just judgey and horrible.

One recently had a thread absolutely slating women who have pain relief in childbirth. Another full of women going on about how they are having unassisted births and laughing at those who have hospital births as stupid scared,and hoodwinked and not understanding how birth REALLY works. The latest one full of horrible crap about formula feeding, here

www.facebook.com/pages/The-Alpha-Parent/168640486536470

There is nothing gentle about any of them - they are judgey, spiteful and nasty. Feel quite disillusioned!

[neunundneunzigluftballons]

There are plenty of people engaging in the same behaviour on other threads on this site though carovioletfizz. There are downright nasties on the internet who I do not believe would act like that in real life. I like you went onto one of those gentle parent sites even though I have ff kids as well as bf ones. The ff went into their own room earlier than probably necessary, I always use disposable nappies. But a bit like here there are posters I ignore completely, threads I don't read but I have definitely have gotten the best bf info on those sites which is why I use them.

[carovioletfizz]

will have a look!

[JerseySpud]

Join Santicmommy.

It helps m Blood pressure dramatically

[carovioletfizz]

I do see what you are saying neu, that it's judgy to judge other people for being judgy.

The difference is, I'm not judging these women for their parenting choices. I'm judging them for being so completely vicious and horrible about how other people bring up their children.

[neunundneunzigluftballons]

There is absolutely no need to go on gentle parenting sites to watch women sling mud at one another you can come on here instead. The irony of this thread. Women on the internet are very judgmental. In fact I have experienced many judgegy pants men on other sites to just not parenting ones. Should we be concerned that men don't engage in competitive parenting on websites? Or maybe do they not give a shit how Dad next door is doing it.

[carovioletfizz]

Just noticed the Alpha Parent has a forum.
www.thealphaparentforum.com/viewforum.php?f=9&sid=b59001f7eb9fbc1c41b0b06dad77afc5
If you think their FB page is bad....
There's a section on crap parenting.
One of the topics is, having children by many different fathers.
I've left my own comment on this on their FB page. Horrors.
www.facebook.com/pages/The-Alpha-Parent/168640486536470

[ShowOfHands]

Nay. Oh dear. If I put lemon juice on my nipples, 2yo ds would feed even more. He loves raw lemons. I'm going to nip across to one of these groups on Facebook and ask them what bitter, non-poisonous substance they all recommend to use to induce bfing aversion.

You wouldn't have to kill everybody you know? Today, I'd take half.

[namechangeforareasonablereason]

Nay that made me laugh - sorry if it wasnt meant to - spec they are all bitches.

I shall cling to my group - they are all lovely.

[NayFindus]

I breastfed, co-slept, did baby led weaning and cloth nappies. I had to put lemon juice on my breasts to get the little blighter off them at 2 yrs 3 months. She screams if she wakes up and I'm not there. She eats sod all but Magnum ice creams, which dh doles out like wet wipes and which appear to have given her an allergic reaction to dairy products. And I was too bloody tired to use the half ton of cloth nappies I have in the end, or the Didymos slings at £100 a time.

I'm still knackered. And I want a divorce. I mean too knackered to join Facebook, but it's no wonder they're all bitches. I could quite happily kill people. Really. Quite happily.

[Therealamandaclarke]

Kamchatka

[Kamchatka]

therealamandaclarke - it's upsetting that people can be so wrong as to imply that anyone giving birth hasn't done anything other than the best they can in the circumstances. It just defies belief that people can't imagine that their nicely-positioned baby and lovely encouraging midwife whose shift coincides with their whole labour is actually not a gift that is given to all women. Birth is fantastically complex at the best of times, and with the best will in the world, aftercare tends to be poor. I hope you do find a way to exorcise the whole experience and lessen its power somehow.

[namechangeforareasonablereason]

a mummy clique - love it - thats all it is is it

I find the GP mummies amazing, when every one else let us down, when every one else turned away, this mummy clique, this group of strangers opened their arms and their hearts, picked me up and helped put me back together again

I have found, that because they are more in tune with feelings - because they are a "bunch of hippies", they are also more accepting, admittedly this is just one small GP group, in one small part of the UK, but they are the least judgemental parents I have ever met

The home birthing group I am in also encourages mums who have had birth trauma, and hospital birth - we dont turn our backs on people you know

I find the turning up your nose at people just because they dont parent the same way as you wrong and there is a lot of it going on on this thread

[Therealamandaclarke]

Showofhands no, I haven't had any help with it. Can you tell?
Thank you for your kind words.
It gets better over time. And I know I am very lucky to have two healthy (touch wood) DCs. I am genuinely pleased for anyone who has a trauma- free or even pleasurable birth. I just wish that it wasn't seen as a sort of failing or character flaw to have needed some intervention. You know, if I had tried harder i could have just pushed him out.
Thank you.

[pommedechocolat]

mrsjay - EXACTLY. ff or bf, cot or co-sleeping - whatever! Really, any difference it might or might not make is fucking miniscule.

How about focusing all that effort on working with social services to improve the lives of neglected children if you want to feel superior to other parents? Obviously just not as 'fun'.

[ShowOfHands]

Therealamandaclarke, my lovely, have you had any help with how you're feeling? I did the same as you. I wanted a home waterbirth because it was what was right for me. I went through the starting at home in water, whisked to hospital in a blue light ambulance, a load of intervention and a final emcs with a bleeding, torn, muscle-damaged little girl (she's absolutely fine now). And the postnatal care? Bwahahahaha? Care? Hmmmmmmmmm.

I think I probably went through a lot of what you're going through. I couldn't talk about the whole thing without crying (particularly the postnatal care which was shambolic). It robbed me of months of my life with my new baby because I felt all sort of things. Ashamed, shocked, traumatised, guilt-ridden. And when people talked about their beautiful, drug free, trauma-free deliveries, something inside me curled up and died and I weeped and ached for what I thought was my own failure.

It took me a long time to seek help and I should have done it sooner. I think what happens is that you fall into the tumbling chasm between what you wanted and what actually happened. And you end up raw and vulnerable and you have this massive, lifechanging thing happen to you and instead of being able to couch it in these positive terms, you physically can't talk about it because it wasn't what you wanted and expected and then you hear other people glowing about their own experiences and you are floored. The thing is, those people were lucky. They had a brilliant, positive experience and they want to share it. It's just you aren't able to hear about it because you're hurt. What I realised after a lot of help, time and some healing was that they are you. Just the you that you used to be. You went into the birth and delivery of your baby with hopes, with choices and an expectation of a level of care. And had it all worked out, you'd have skipped out of it all perhaps still feeling positive and glowing and singing the praises of that home water birth. Instead it didn't work out and you were let down by substandard care.

I am actually in a place where I can feel really pleased for people who had a good time of it because they really are bloody lucky. Silly people who make value judgements about other people on the other hand? They are just silly people. They merely have a new topic in which to wax silly.

[mrsjay]

what gets me about THAT page and other views like it they go on about compassion but there is no compassion non whatsoever formula is poison not breastfeeding is child abuse, letting your baby lie in a cot on their own is neglect and damaging development, and the thing is they believe all that rubbish and they wouldn't know child abuse or neglect if it hit them in the face it makes me so

[Kamchatka]

No, you don't sound like a swivel-nippled loon at all therealamandaclarke.

Some people do get it arse-about-face though. It's cognitive dissonance played out in a public forum. I breastfeed, and I would not do a worthless thing, therefore breastfeeding must be extremely valuable and I MUST MAKE PEOPLE SEE THIS.

(For the record, I don't think it's worthless, it's lovely and a Good Thing and free etc)

[Flibbertyjibbet]

I had a pain relief free first birth because a week's worth of on-off contractions had me fully dilated when we got to hospital and I realised I'd gone through transition in the car on the way there. (Whilst having to give dp directions as at 3am that morning the motorway junction for the hospital was closed!!). Each night when I phoned up the hospital in agony they said 'oh it doesn't sound like you're ready to come in yet'.

Waters had not gone, ended up at the end of transition stage having waters broken, blood tests taken off babys head while he was still up there, followed by ventouse as it was deemed quicker than getting me in for emergency csection.

The only pain relief I had through all that was a local jab for the stitching up after episiotomy!

Am I proud of myself? No it was fekking agony. Do I boast about it? Only in the most jokey way, cos I certainly wouldn't have had it that way if there were any other options.

When I found out I was pg with ds2 I had to have a counselling session with a midwife because I was so terrified of giving birth again. Then I had it put on my notes that this time I would be turning up at hospital from the first contraction.... so I'd be in time for all the industrial strength pain releif the hopsital could offer.

DS2 was a large transverse baby so I had elcs. So I guess I failed that time didn't I, if some people's idea of not failing is that you spend a week trying to push a baby out that's stuck sidesways

There is a mum like these at our school. Had another baby 2 years ago, it was always in a sling, didn't seem to get a chance to toddle round the playground like the other younger siblings! But then I saw her one weekend with baby in a PRAM at a supermarket in the next town! It was so funny how on seeing me she immediately pulled the baby out of the buggy and put it in the sling, then tried to make out the pram was for her older child to push her teddy round in

[Therealamandaclarke]

Good point kam I used the word "commitment" because of a conversation with my friend last week about bf. we both bf our PFB for about 2 yrs. and I was complaining about not drinking
I know the odd glass is ok but it's often not worth the effort.i was missing being able to just sink half a bottle withsunday lunch. So in some ways, for me it has been a commitment to feed a certain way.
But I don't mean to suggest that this makes me any more committed as a parent IYSWIM.

[ShakeAndVac]

Ooops, such a big rage I've had an epic strike out fail, lol

[ShakeAndVac]

I've clicked and had a quick read at that page. Then clicked off again as I could feel my blood pressure rising and I was starting to get the RAGE.
What a pile of bollocks.Must sit on hands, must sit on hands

[Kamchatka]

Therealamandaclarke It isn't being fixated to actually do the thing. We're all doing parental stuff! But I think the word 'commitment' is interesting because it is very loaded. As you rightly point out, if you had needed or wanted to do things different, would that have therefore been less of a commitment?

I don't think so, myself.

[Therealamandaclarke]

showofhands your post resonates with me.
(bith story alert. Sorry)
I really wanted a home birth with my PFB. I was determined to avoid admission to hospital, not because I felt it made me a better person, but because I knew that the postnatal care would be shit and ruin the early days for me.
Got to 7cm in pool at home. Loving it. The next thing I know it's ambulance - hospital - theatre - forceps - 3rd degree tear - permanently scarred baby, bla bla bla.
And then seven fucking hellish days in hospital with all my fears about on care confirmed. It still makes me cry when I speak about it.
I haven't been back to my local baby clinic since I encountered a woman boasting about how well she had managed. Maybe I was over sensitive and should have just been happy for her. Probably. Maybe not, given what some ppl in these groups are saying.I don't have a fb account.

[MoominsYonisAreScary]

How sad, some of them sound totally barking