to think school should teach times tables?

[hwjm1945]

Just found out that DS1 will have times tables quizzes at school but will not be taught tables,apparently we are to teach them at home.is this the norm?seems bizarre to me,why not?

[exoticfruits]

You can teach them- you can't make them learn them, that needs plenty of practise.

[ItIsKnown]

Thinking back, even when I was young and there was time for this in the curriculum, I spent time on a Sunday with my times tables book from WH Smith learning them.

But there was fuck-all else to do on a Sunday in those days, especially in winter. No shops open so we went to Mass in the morning and I just read, played my piano and waited for dinner. No games-consoles and DIRE television viewing which meant that learning times tables was preferable.

I doubt I'd know two times two if I were growing up now given the amount of time I piss about on the internet.

[Meglet]

They teach them at our school.

I've downloaded some times tables songs off of itunes and burnt them onto a car cd. It's all fun and games on our long car journeys .

[FredFredGeorge]

What's the point of learning them at all?

[ThePinkOcelot]

My dds school definitely taught them. I used to go over them at home with them and test them on them, but they did do them in school.

My niece's school didn't do spellings!

[exoticfruits]

The point is that children who know them are so much better at maths- mental arithmetic is going to be a hugely disadvantaged without instant recall. Once you know them you have them for life.

[Taz1212]

Our school teaches them but it's just by reciting the sequence, I.e. 3,6,9,12,15 etc not 3x1is 3, 3x2 is 6 and so on. The kids end up counting on their fingers to work out the answer if asked one on the spot.

I had my DC recite them the old fashioned way on the walk to school.

[hwjm1945]

I appreciate that reinforcement at home is key,but I just found it odd that they do not teach at all.I note the comparison with reading and take that on board

[FredFredGeorge]

exoticfruits Or those better at maths know times-tables... Where's the evidence that knowing them is a good thing? (As opposed to spending the time spent learning them learning other maths and multiplication based exercises.)

[ItIsKnown]

I'm a great believer in instant recall. Knowing the sequence and counting on fingers slows down problem-solving. Examinations are time-limited. However, not everyone is a visual learner and while I can "see" 7 x 8 = 56 in my head, not everyone will.

Apart from Sundays being indistinguishable from Saturdays, I do think that children these days are disadvantaged in mathematics due to the disuse of cash.

I had coins given to me from an early age and could buy a decent bag of sweets for ten pence from the newsagent which I was able to walk to. Or a comic. I'd have to count out my coins. I remember a fifty pence piece being untold riches and saved them for ages to buy a five pound camera

[ItIsKnown]

FredFredGeorge before DD learned multiplication facts she got so bogged down in working them out for multiple-operation problems that she couldn't take on board the higher principles which she was supposed to be learning and a downward-spiral ensued.

[cory]

I think children who never have had to learn anything by heart (whether times tables or poetry or irregular French verbs) are greatly disadvantaged later in life, because they just don't realise what the human brain is capable of. I see it every year with my undergraduates. the ones who come from countries where they still do some rote learning are much more confident about learning new stuff in general.

[exoticfruits]

My evidence is that I was employed to boost year 6 for SATs on a one- to- one basis and those who needed boosting did not know their tables. One paper was without calculators and they have a time limit. If you can't instantly know 8x8 = 64 you are going to waste valuable time working it out. The mental arithmetic test has limited time - they will be onto the next question.

[ItIsKnown]

Shop prices don't help either. I remember when things were sold in round figures. I still have to explain to DD that if something is £5.99 it is SIX pounds less a penny not five pounds and a few pence.

[exoticfruits]

It is chicken and egg really. I dare say they will learn tables more easily if they are good at maths, but they won't be good at maths unless they know their tables. It is a very simple thing to practise at home and only needs take a few minutes a day. Little and often.

[Stravy]

dd is 8 and still hasn't been tested on her sodding times tables at school so she is still walking around with a sad "my 2x table" card in her bag, despite knowing them all (all be it a bit wobbly with her 12s). They are 'getting around to her'. They have 'got around' to some of the other kids 11 times.

[ItIsKnown]

Nobody needs to learn times tables up to twelve since decimalisation because we don't use pounds, shillings and pence / base twelve any more

Twelve times x is ten times x add two times x.

[Nanny0gg]

Twelve times x is ten times x add two times x.

And why do it the slower way when you can recall it faster? 11x table is easy-peasy and twelve isn't straightforward.

But however many games you play, whilst they help, the only way to learn is constant repetition. And there is little time to do that in class.

[ItIsKnown]

But why stop at twelve though? People needed to recall up to twelve when we had a money system which utilised it.

We don't now, and partitioning is a useful additional skill otherwise we would all be learning times tables up to infinity! I don't remember having the thirteen, fourteen and fifteen tables being drilled into me because there was never any practical purpose to it.

That's why we have a number system which is in base ten.

[ItIsKnown]

I was taught the eleven and twelve times tables at school because people were very suspicious (and rightly so because of cheating bastards of shopkeepers) of decimalisation and perhaps they thought the policy might be reversed.

I was also a victim of measurement changes. I was taught a mixture of inches, yards, feet, gallons, metres, centimetres, pints, fucking millilitres and all sorts because nobody could make up their minds about metric.

[eddiemairswife]

The children have to put the effort in to learn them by heart, which is something some of them never seem to do. I had a boy in my Y6 class who was on the special needs register, but he knew all of his tables up to 12 times. Some of the little so and sos are just too lazy to bother, yet they could learn parts for class assembly overnight and everyone else's part as well. My tables come in handy when I need to convert to metric from imperial and vice versa.

[NoComet]

we practised tables endlessly in the car. DD 1 and me still don't know them

However, we are both perfectly good at real senior school maths, it's just we are dyslexic and random facts, like spellings and French vocab. float off into the ether.

DD2 finds us very puzzling.