To want to throw up a little bit (Prince William comment)

[fluffyraggies]

Just seen a clip on BBC breakfast of a speech given by Prince W, last night somewhere i presume, about how he and Kate are to be forgiven for nervously keeping an eye on their mobiles during the evening; George left at home.

Simpering laughter all round

I'm not anti-royal - bit on the fence - but this made me .

Over egging the 'ordinary man' pudding IMO. We're not stupid. I know it was light hearted, but come on. Like one of the staff would ring William's mobile mid-speech to say 'oi, Will, where d'y'keep the nappies mate?' FFS. They haven't left him with the teenager from next door!

(Plus i'm now going to have to listen to my mother simpering about did i see how 'Our William' had his mobile on ready in case the baby woke up)

It's early. I'm grumpy.

[ZingWantsCake]

but what if Harry is looking after George?

you'd need a portable webcam....

[NotQuitePerfect]

mignonette I love you! the voice of reason!

[MissStrawberry]

YABU

He can't win. When he does stuff that most other parents have done he is slated. If he said nothing about the baby he would be moaned at for who does he think he is tendencies.

Get a cup of tea and stop being so grumpy.

And do people really get a bit of sick in their mouths or is just another stupid saying that MNters have started posting?

[mignonette]

Notquite Thank you. My son had to debate this at school once and he researched loads of stats on the amount of engagements divided by days and all of them showed a reality not reflected in the 'hard working' headlines of a sycophantic agenda led press. He also quoted tourist figures from all the mainland European royal sites (from defunct and not defunct families) then contrasted them w/ non royal attractions. It demonstrated that you do not need a royal family in situ to generate this revenue, nor is it as important as we think. Some of the teachers did their best to discredit him but his sources were impeachable (not Wikipaedia) and included the Court Circular.

[mignonette]

I might not actually get sick in my mouth but I do get the white mist/rages (another MN saying )

[EdithWeston]

You seem to have only counted time at engagements, not travelling time nor preparation time (even if she has speech writers, she still needs briefing and practice runs).

And her civil list payments are scaled to the public duties she does. Teachers work 190 days (and also travel and do their preparation) - are they not hard-working?

[EdithWeston]

Sorry - 195 days - a similar amount to the 199 you calculated for her public duties (not including IOC).

[mignonette]

No, she has an astronomical amount of help to prepare for these 'engagements'. My teacher friends are yet to have this. They might have LA's but they are there to assist the children mostly. When my teacher friends or my nursing colleagues have personal ladies in waiting and private secretaries then you can compare them to Anne.

We all travel and prepare. Like I said, when she uses public transport or drives herself instead of chauffeured limousines, helicopters, private planes, trains w/ the whole carriage to herself and her entourage, then we're talking.

[sCHOOLgATEhATE]

YANBU because I too shall have my mum on the phone, banging on like their the next door neighbours and she occasionally lends Kate a tin of tomatoes. YOU HAVE NO IDEA, THEY ARE STRANGERS TO YOU.

'They're so down to earth'
'She'll be a lovely mother'
'His mother would have loved this'
and my mum's all time favourite ' The Queen is sooooo wise'

[FoxMulder]

Is it their first time out without him though? Weren't they in Anglesey a couple of weeks ago? They said on the news that the baby was at home. I thought they meant down south somewhere. Or is home Anglesey?

[camrywagon]

YABU
I'm not particularly royalist or anit-royalist but I can recognise that people are born into the families they are.

Their actions and behaviour are a direct result - we all experience that to some extent no matter what our circumstances.

They're a young family expected to do things no one would be expected to do. I'd be shit if I had the expectations placed on them on me and they would most likely be shit if they had the expectations place on me on them.

[diddl]

Does anyone think that they shouldn't be nervous because of who they are?

It's the using it as an opportunity to pretend that they're like everyone else.

Like when Diana took the boys to Alton Towers/Chessington?

How "normal" it made them.

When there's protection nearby & you go home to a palace-sorry, no, normal you are not.

Or rather the life you lead is not usual.

[PostBellumBugsy]

So glad I'm not royal. The forensic analysis of my every utterance and laugh would put me off all the perks. Imagine meeting people knowing that they'll probably tweet about you afterwards to say you simpered or were a baby bore or didn't talk about your baby enough - so that everyone else could then comment on whether you had or your hadn't. Bloody hell, how depressing.

[mignonette]

What they do and what the Press report are two different things. The Press reported that Philip still hadn't seen their baby when in fact they'd been to Sandringham the previous weekend. I know that because some of my family live in the village and in other ones nearby and they'd both seen them driving along and noticed the huge security presence in advance of their visit.

[charleylarlie]

I can understand completely that they would be anxious with it being the first time they had left him (and they probably will be for the next few outings).

...However I don't doubt that it was also set up as a PR stunt (albeit a more 'natural' one) to make them seem like people that we can relate to. I find it all quite patronising myself but then I'm not a royalist and never will be.

[BalloonSlayer]

• and it wasn't William's first evening/night away either . . . he went on a stag do or something, didn't he, and he has been away working.

[Growlithe]

mignonette I'm no Royalist but I can't help but feel your son's research lacks a bit of further analysis.

Now I'm not necessarily arguing that the RF are hard working. But he is measuring whether a person is hard working by the amount of time spent on a job. A five minute visit to say a bedside of a sick person by a member of the RF could arguably lift the spirits of that person to an extent that could not be measured. A short speech for a conservation charity (especially throwing in a remark which the media would jump on) would raise the profile of that charity.

The tourist figures are also a bit flawed. For example, I went to Windsor once to see the castle. I didn't want to go in the castle, just see it from outside. When in Windsor I did the open top bus tour and ate a meal there. I probably wouldn't have gone if the castle hadn't been there. Where would I have fitted into your son's facts and figures.

[voiceofnoreason]

Mignonette. Just want to correct you on a couple of points ref Anne and travelling. I used to use the same train line and train station that she uses. On occasion i would upgrade myself to first class to get a bit of space and work as it was a long journey from Paddington. On a number of occasions Princess Anne would also be in first class. Her security detail would not section off the carriage just the table which they would sit at with her. On arrival - she would invariably drive her own car away. He ticket was clipped like everyone else and she would pay for her muffin and bottled water just like us.

I dont necessarily buy into the whole hardworking thing - but from a constitutional point of view, the monarchy works as well as any other and has less of the issues of the american / french systems. You will also see issues with elected upper houses as well. Is your issue a constitutional or a fiscal one? The fiscal arguments have been done to death elsewhere and the counter arguments stack up when you condone simple seizing of privately held property. When you start down that route, you generally end up down the shining path of collectivisation. The constitutional POV is less finely balanced - look closer at alternative systems and they have myriad faults. Part of Britain's long term success is down to an armed forces, judiciary and civil service that are loyal to the crown rather than the executive. The executive needs the concurrence of the Head of state to get certain things done and the HoS is kept from politics rather than government as a result. Which is why the HoS needs permission to go to parliament. The history is really pertinent here, it took a civil war, an execution or two, the creation of a commonwealth republic, a reformation and a glorious revolution to get it right.

[mignonette]

Unless I publish his full speech here (which I'm sure nobody here has time to read) you will have to take my word for it that his speech covered tourist revenues, time spent versus days versus what was actually accomplished.

The figures are not just compiled from revenue from tickets bought. The Versailles one were compiled from people through the garden gate so to speak. Because of security it is not too difficult to compile data on visitors to many attractions . If I was to apply your criteria then any visit to anywhere in Windsor whether it be Tesco's or the Castle would count seeing as it is Royal Windsor. At some point you have to say 'look this is the data like for like as in footfall to an attraction whether it be through the gates of Alton Towers, Legoland, Alnick or Durham Cathedral (Harry Potter) or football in Versailles/ex Royal residences in Germany/Holland/Sweden or actual living residences such as Buckingham Palace.

As for hard working, the media describes certain members of the royal lot as this when in fact the level of effort/time spent in comparison to doing their own private activities is skewed and not in the favour of the hard work in royal duties bit. Measurable and demonstrable effect is pretty impossible to quantify. For example when I worked for a famous HIV/AIDS charity in London, there were more of our clients who did not wish to hold Diana's hand as there where that did. Many of them did not feel the benefits of this. So how to quantify? I err on the side of believing that what they do is not hard work in any way shape or form, does not compare to what the working Joe has to endure and pales in comparison when you think of all the stuff they do not have to do when they are not at work- like washing/cleaning/staying in because they cannot afford babysitters/saving for holidays when they are tired/ stressed of simply not having one. There is no comparison. None.

[HeadsDownThumbsUp]

Both constitutional and fiscal, but the constitutional imperative is, if anything, more important.

The British monarchy does not 'work as well as any other' if you want to have any measure of democracy beyond an elected chamber of commons. There is growing public displeasure at the use of the royal veto, and the censorship of exchanges between the RF and the Government which are clearly within the public interest. To say that the HoS is kept from politics is a polite lie, and we all know it.

Time for an elected upper house too, and a more transparent and democratically organised judiciary.

[mignonette]

My 'issue' is pure and simple. I bow my head to nobody because of their accident of birth. I respect people who achieve through their sole efforts. I do not swear allegiance to a family who are no better than anybody else and a whole lot worse than many.

Hereditary privilege is a fusty anachronism. And BTW I didn't actually mention the seizing of their property. I don't know where you got that from. I am talking of them being private members of society responsible for managing their own finances like the rest of us. And as for our 'long term success'- well that is debatable especially at the moment when it looks like we have been made complete fools of internationally but that is a whole other thread.....

And as for the travel, our family (who live nearby to one of their main residences) are seeing the constant coming and goings of most of the Royals w/ their swathes of hangers on, cars full of staff, security, luggage etc. They do not travel like you and me. Anne arrives at many of her engagements in a chauffered car w/ full compliment of staff accompanying. She is chauffered from Sandringham to the church FGS on many occasions. As are all of them. Driving her car occasionally does not suddenly qualify her as value for money on a moral level let alone an economic one. She should do it all the time.

[mignonette]

Oh and Voice their cars are not left parked at the station for them to collect at the end of their working day. They are driven there by staff or security for them to collect. That is not free and is not a perk your ordinary working stiff enjoys.

[queenofdrama]

Yabu. Nannies or not, they are first time parents who are anxious. Give them a break. Kate is breastfeeding so would obviously be wondering how their baby was doing with bottles of ebm.

[CuteDesigns]

You would have had to do the simpering laughing though as William thought he was so cleaver and funny and it would be uncomfortable to humiliate anyone doing a public speech by not simpering laughing as he was looking at your expecting you to find him soooo interesting.

I am not surprised that the PFB lark has gone to Williams head, all the questions and press interest.

What he needs to do now is calm down, it is a sperm, lots of others manage it too. Your sperm produced a baby, wow! You are in love with your baby and have had good wishes and attention, now please calm down.

Your baby is no more special than any other baby born that day, just yours is privileged and will be remembered due to your ancestry.