to think hitting is not 'to be expected' at playgroup.

[OhWhatAPalaver]

Yesterday I took my 20 mo dd to a new playgroup, it would have been lovely if it wasn't for the fact that one boy was being v aggressive towards all the other children. He and my dd were not even playing together and he came up and smacked her in the eye for no reason at all. She now has a bruise below and a scratch above her eye. Needless to say I was not impressed with the mother when she barely disciplined him. I thought maybe it was a one off but he went on to hit another girl on the head 3 times and had also been seen kicking other children.
I have never had to deal with another child deliberately hurting my dd and really didn't know how to react. The other mum whose dd he also hit spoke to one of the organisers of the group and she brushed it off by saying "he's only a baby" !! But the fact is he is not a baby, he is a toddler and i think it should be addressed. But what is the best way to go about it when it's someone else's child? This really isn't acceptable behaviour is it?
Also the boys mother is one of the organisers of the group as well which makes it awkward, the mum of the other girl he hit just said she isn't coming back because of him. :(

valiumredhead - I wasn't aware my parenting was up for discussion. Maybe I am lucky. Or maybe it is down to my parenting. Who knows.

I was merely saying that saying "they all do it" isn't a valid response to your child belting someone elses

Why is it irritating to you then?

SlightlyItchy - just to clarify, it has never actually taken an hour to get dd to say sorry, I was just making a point.
I understand that some kids do go through hitting phases. It was the lack of intervention from the mother that bothered me but then also feeling like I couldn't say anything as it not my kid :/
I do agree with Fleta, 'they all do it' or 'they're just babies' are not valid excuses for a lack of discipline.

Also, just curious but why do some parents disagree with time out?

try reading this - I love this blog

my son pushed your son today

I dont agree with timeout - I do not believe that punishing a child by withdrawal of communication or affection achieves anything but to make the child feel isolated, better for my child to understand what they are doing than simply to be punished.

My view is punishement simply drives behaviour underground.

I think that time out can work, when the child is old enough to have sufficent language skills to discuss their behaviour and be reasoned with. Most two year olds are not at that stage and would not sit on the step.

However putting a two year old in safe place and ignoring them for a couple of minutes is far better than smacking. Time out can be of benefit to the parents even if it doesn't teach the child to behave.

Time out works really well with an older child. I sent my eleven year old to his room for swearing. It is a natural consequence of his behaviour. Ie. he chose to swear and as a result has been asked to leave the room until he is ready to speak to his family nicely.

I feel that taking a child home after poor behaviour at playgroup is better than time out at two as it is natural consequence.

Time out works well ime but not with 2 year olds. For time out to work the child had to have some concept of right and wrong and at 2 they are too young.

The best way with 2 year olds is to find something to distract them before they do it. Clever and experienced people who manage toddlers can do this at the drop of a hat, so that the child does not get as far as the hitting and does not gain any reward from it. Give plenty eye contact and positive feedback if they are doing what you want, and also to the children around who are playing nicely - take notice and praise what they are doing, whilst blanking the misbehaving child. They will want to be like the others and join in.

We had a playgroup leader who had this down to a fine art and only had one who did not 'crack' within 3 weeks (the child had big problems at home and left anyway)

The trouble with this is it is really hard work and you do not get a chance to sit down and have a cup of tea. :( Which is no fun at a toddler group. Try out more groups with better behaved carers and stick to those. There is always going to be someone, but some roups are better than others.

(We had a problem at a Mums group, where one had discovered hitting children over the head was fun and his mother's only reaction was to go to him after the event and take him to the distraught child (my 18mth old non speaking child in the main, that day) and make him apologise. Totally embarrassing useless waste of effort. One more proactive mum was getting really cross with this. The boy was stood in front of her, with a doctor's case raised above his head, ready to clash it over the little on in front of him - she grabbed the case from behind, stuck it behind her back and looked away as if nothing had happened. The look on his face was priceless!)

It's normal for them to hit at that age, they don't understand boundaries unless we teach them. Which is why it's the parents job to say "no, do not hit, it hurts people!" or whatever. You may find your own child doing it at a later date if she hasn't already.

My 2 year old DS has form for hitting when he doesn't get his own way or something. If I see him do it or another child comes and tells me I sort it out and yes he is told off. If he keeps on doing it we have to go home. It pisses me off when other people fail to do anything about their kids lashing out. Same goes for his older sister although she's never really been a hitter.

Distraction and ignoring works for some children.

I used to run a Stay and Play class, as well as Webster Stratton and these methods are recommended for some.

Developing children are different, they behave differently and respond to a range of methods, you very rarely know what would be best more than the Mother does.

Hitting IS to be expected at playgroup. However that does not mean it should've tolerated. If it happens, it should be addressed otherwise these children will still be hitting at primary school, or even later.

DD is 20 months.
she does hit sometimes, but it's usually because she doesn't understand that she's being hard.

she is also bloody selfish when it comes to toys, and will snatch a toy if she feels it's "hers"
that does come in handy when little children (usually older) snatch a toy off her when she had it first.

when she's in the wrong, I always go to her "no! you must not hit people!" and do the stern face and move her arm away.
if it's because she doesn't understand it hurts (ie, she's trying to be friendly), then I say "gently, DD, you can touch, but do it nicely."

i think it's all in the tone of voice at this age, but even then, they don't quite understand.

But to not do anything about it as the parent is wrong - even if they don't quite understand, if you always say "no, that's not nice" or other stern phrases, then the child will eventually get the message that it's not nice.
I think by 2, it should be sinking in. even 20month DD is working out when i'm being funny and when I'm not.