To think the BBC really should be shut down?

[Loeri]

After the child abuse scandals, and now this where BBC execs have been given payments far beyond anything they were required to be given, isn't it time that the BBC was just shut down? It can't really be said that it makes the best TV in the world anymore, the best TV programmes come from the US and have done for well over a decade now. I just don't see the purpose of the BBC in 2013. It is arrogant, bloated beyond belief and seems only to exist to provide cushy jobs for the Guardian set.

[Loeri]

"OP - why should the BBC get rid of things like Strictly and Casualty off their main flagship channels? More people want to watch Strictly than Attenborough."
Why don't they just make good programmes that people want to watch? Programmes that can be sold all over the world? Casualty is laughable when compared to other top dramas, even hospital dramas like ER.

[GingerBeerAndTinnedPeaches]

The point is that the BBC has an obligation to provide genuinely varied programming. Something for everyone whatever their interests and needs. There are masses of programmes that just wouldn't be made by anyone, anywhere in the world, other than by the Beeb because advertisers wouldn't be interested. That includes a lot of the nature programmes, radio shows, classical music, minor sporting event coverage on TV and radio.

I can't believe people don't realise what a privilege this is.

[Loeri]

"OP - moving a programme from BBC4 to BBC1 would not mean more people would watch it. The same number of people who would watch it on BBC4 would now be watching BBC1 ie less. And presumably people would be stuffing the figures for BBC4 watching Holby City."
You're wrong.

[msrisotto]

YABMassivelyU. But then I would because I know what other countries channels are like.

[reggiebean]

Spiral - the BBC partially funds this
Bridge - based in Sweden/Denmark. Surely the BBC would have been slated if they tried to make a show like tht about another country?!
The Killing - once again, its about crime in another country. Not the Beeb's place to make a show about it.
The Sopranos - sorry, I didnt realise you were so familiar with mafia gangsters who live in the burbs and own garbage companies in this country. Oh, you're not?! Strange then, that you didn't make a show about New Jersey.
The Wire - Somehow, I don't think a series where the kids are running around with guns would be quite so believable set in England.

The BBC doesn't make shows like this because they aren't about the UK, or anything relatable to the UK!

[Loeri]

The BBC made "I Claudius" in the 70s, widely regarded as one of their finest hours. Set in ancient Rome. Not about the UK, or anything relatable to the UK? Should they have made it?

[herethereandeverywhere]

I'm with Loeri and Friday 16 on this.

No-one has even mentioned the waste of a couple of hundred million on that IT project.

Someone upthread said "Bad things happen on any corporation of such a big size, it's just in most private companies they would never see the light of day."

Actually, it's quite the opposite. There is NO WAY ON EARTH that any of the other big media players could have got away with p*ssing hundreds of millions away on a failed project without proper accountability. Others before me have covered the woefully lacking HR function.

And we're all watching as they treat the paedo scandal as something far removed from the institution today. I'm no Murdoch lover but look what happened to him and his organisation when crime and wrongdoing was uncovered - where's the universal revulsion of the BBC? Where's the forcing of closing down a part of it due to the historical actions of others?

I want accountability for the pseudo-tax that I pay and that is forcibly extracted from others.

[friday16]

"I don't know, but I think it is likely that the use of the word 'resign' is somewhat fluid here (not by you Friday) in which case it is likely that the payment to end of contract is in lieu of notice which is what grown up companies do!"

They had grounds to sack her for cause: she presided over an organisation which paid out millions of pounds without authorisation, what grown-ups call "theft" and "corruption". Even if they had terminated her contract without going to the lengths of actually dismissing her immediately, they could have announced "her contract has been terminated as the BBC no longer has confidence in her", paid her off and escorted her off the premises (as she would have done to others).

Instead, she gets a laudatory send off, the pretence that she's a great loss to the organisation, her contract paid in full and (pace those questioning the use of the word "payoff") let's wait until she's actually gone to see if she gets something extra for the journey: if she doesn't, she'll be the first BBC executive in living memory not to.

In BBC-land, you can resign from your job, take another, and still find yourself in receipt of £375 000 of completely non-contractual wonga, just for being a nice chap. That's, what, a couple of thousand annual license fees? Sure, Keating is said to have given the money back, but that's hardly the point, even if it's true.

[Notyetthere]

I have not read all comments but I like the bbc. If are only interested in the dramas then you are very limited. bbc4 and bbc2 have made some of the best historical and scientific programmes. Recently the programme about how we came to use the standard units of measure was excellent viewing.

[reggiebean]

Rome isn't relatable to the UK?!?! Oh, excuse me while I walk down this road...

[Loeri]

Is Ancient Rome and more relatable to the UK than present day Baltimore, New Jersey or Copenhagen?

Didn't the BBC make Van der Valk back in the 70s? That was set in Amsterdam.

[GalaxyDefender]

The BBC isn't allowed to shut down until both Strictly and The Wrong Mans have aired. /gavel

But seriously. I don't care if other people think it's dross, there are obviously people who like various things the BBC is putting out. If nobody watched it, they'd stop making it!
I do agree that with the whole bonuses thing they're taking the piss a bit. But sadly, that's how things are everywhere (all the way up to bloody government level) so I don't really know what can be done about it.

[friday16]

"There is NO WAY ON EARTH that any of the other big media players could have got away with p*ssing hundreds of millions away on a failed project without proper accountability."

Oh, yes, let's do DMI. A project which had to be completely written off, even though all the people in charge had been being given massive bonuses for the excellent job they were doing only a few months before and the BBC management had lied to parliament and said that it was already in use, when in fact it simply didn't work. What a fantastic demonstration of the efficient, lean, BBC that was.

[reggiebean]

Have you been to Baltimore or New Jersey?!

Based on the similarities between the two empires, yes, I'd say Ancient Rome is actually quite relatable.

[Loeri]

What's the excuse for Game of Thrones? Is that "not relatable" either?

[reggiebean]

My point is, the BBC is making great shows about the UK (and commonwealth), so why would they start making shows about something that doesn't apply here? Let someone else make the show about their country... Part of the reason these shows have done so well is because they're authentic.

[EvieanneVolvic]

Okay Friday you have argued your point extremely well and convincingly (Seriously!)

However there is something in your language use that makes me think you may REALLY know whereof you speak...(that will never do this is AIBU after all!)

[reggiebean]

No, Game of Thrones is just crap.

[LittleBearPad]

It shouldn't be shut down but it should take a bloody long look at itself and determine what it is for.

Its management are out of touch and do commission and show an awful lot of dross. The list of today's programming demonstrates this.

The pay-offs are appalling as is the lack of accountability.

There are countless adverts on the BBC to remind us all about the 'unique way the BBC is funded'.

Its commercial wing, BBC Worldwide makes enormous profits selling programmes overseas and programmes are therefore being made to accommodate ad breaks in these other countries. The recent David Attenborough Africa programme was about 50 minutes long with 10 minutes of DVD special extra crap at the end in the Uk that wasn't shown abroad because ad breaks were inserted. In other programmes the first half hour is summarised again half way through because elsewhere an advert would have been inserted. I can remember things - I don't need them repeated.

The licence fee is an anachronism in the current media age. If the BBC want to keep it they need to shape up.

[friday16]

"Didn't the BBC make Van der Valk back in the 70s? That was set in Amsterdam."

It's also re-making whatever that tedious Swedish police procedural is, with Ken Brannagh. Wallander?

Rather like flat-pack MFI-type furniture appears all chic and cool when you can buy meatballs in the little food shop, it's remarkable how the Guardian are taken in by a subtitled Midsomer Murders. I guess that any old tat looks better if it's foreign. That reaches its depths with Inspector Montewhatever, which make Bergerac look like Mean Streets.

[Loeri]

"No, Game of Thrones is just crap."
Funny how it's the most popular TV show in the world, and critically aclaimed to the highest degree.

[GoldenGytha]

Game of Thrones and The Borgias are the only decent things to come from the US. Even then they have mainly British casts. I like the BBC, The White Queen was most enjoyable, albeit in a light, frothy way, and I have watched Casualty since it began in 1986.
No, you can keep your American rubbish and I'll stick with the BBC!

[KoalaFace]

ReggieBean (the first time my sausage fingers wrote your name it was ReggaeBear).

Actually there are loads of people in America asking why their TV companies don't make things as good as Sherlock, Luther, Dr Who and Merlin.

[Loeri]

"No, you can keep your American rubbish and I'll stick with the BBC!"
Well that's fine, but the problem is that we have to stick with our "American rubbish" AND pay for the BBC as well.

[Bluegrass]

"Now the HR director is being allowed to resign and take a payoff (oh, sorry, "pay in lieu of notice") rather than being dismissed for cause. "

Pay in lieu of notice is when you leave immediately but still receive pay for your contractual notice period (so you get to sit at home and still get paid). Lucy Adams has resigned and is being required to work her notice period, so she works and gets paid. That is hardly my idea of a payoff .

You may think she should have been fired, but that would almost certainly result in a claim for unfair dismissal. Even if the BBC ultimately won that claim, it would waste licence fee payers money in having to fight it, a task that would distract lots of other people at the BBC from doing their jobs and would also no doubt affect morale.

This is the same thinking behind lots of "pay offs". If someone is required to leave and there is a risk that they might have a legitimate claim for unfair dismissal it is often thought that paying them some extra money is sensible as it saves the risk of paying them much more further down the line if their claim succeeds (and it stops you getting bogged down in endless employment claims).

This happens more at the top end as high paid execs have the resources to get good employment lawyers to fight their case, and they can be quite litigious characters.

I'm sure this was the thinking behind most if not all of these pay offs. Whether it was ultimately the right call we might never know, as it is much easier to embrace the Daily Mail narrative that every payoff was illegal and purely fuelled by wanting to toss licence fee money around like confetti.