To want to leave London

[DeweyDecibelle]

It's just so expensive! But me and DH both have jobs that are hard to come by outside of London, so we would either have to be very lucky to get new jobs in our sectors, or get unrelated jobs which seems like a waste of many years training and experience and would probably leave us unhappy as we both are happy in our jobs.

Also, both of us grew up in extremely rural places, with no opportunities, and so we want to give our DC the best start in life - to us this includes living within commuting distance of good universities and a wide range of jobs, so the children have the choice to get an education and work in whatever field they choose, while still living at home, should they wish to, so they can save money to set themselves up for the future, an opportunity neither DH or I had due to distance. (Realise this doesn't have to be London, any big city would do, but we are here now).

But I look at houses outside of London, and sometimes I just wish we could up sticks and move.

[quesadilla]

I am wrestling with this having lived in London nearly 20 years. Before having my dd I wouldn't have considered leaving.

I still basically love London but I think there is often a point on people's lives where - unless you are super wealthy - the downsides start to outweigh the upsides.

I now value different things to when I was in my late 20s. Going out until late every weekend is unfeasible and unappealing, I no longer can go to the theatre or cinema concerts much and I crave green space.

Also London property is prohibitively expensive.

Having said that I would miss it hugely. I like the fact you can be who you want to be, not feeling that everyone you know has known you since the age of five. I love the fact that there are people from every corner of the world. I think small town life probably has its compensations but I think it is going to be a major culture shock as and when I finally ship out.

[SizzleSazz]

I live in the south west and live the open space but 2 hrs to London, less than hour to bath & Bristol and 1 he to Birmingham.

I also have a job which is rare out of London so the 'slim' chance really can work out - a small ray of hope for you!

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

Not sure what jobs you are in that have no opportunities outside London. Both DH and I are in fields where most jobs are in London. I was so lucky when I looked last time. I was interviewing all over central London and then this one came up!

And I'm laughing at the thought of no where to shop after 8pm? Yes, it won't be like London out in the country. The shopping mall here closes at 8pm, and after that only the supermarkets are open. I do all my shopping online anyway so everything is open 24/7. But you are trading in the city for lovely countryside at your doorstep, isn't it? We are in Hampshire and close to both the New Forest and South Downs national parks.

[moggle]

I don't think commuting in from the burbs is that bad, it just depends on what you value. We both work in London, husband in a central gov job he loves and that by definition he can't do elsewhere; me in an academic / research job which do also exist in Oxford, Cambridge and Bristol (and lots of other places too; those are the closest). We lived in zone 2 for three years, renting a 1 bed flat. When we got married and wanted to buy, we just decided that we would rather spend our 250k on a 3 bed semi out in Surrey with a garden than a 1 bed flat where all our friends lived. It was scary moving out but actually so many of our friends have followed us to the area! One bonus of where we are is that as commutes into London go, ours is fab - we get a seat every single morning without fail and evenings too as long as you get to Waterloo 5mins+ before the train goes. The train takes about 25-30 mins and then I have a 20 minute walk and DH a 10 minute walk to our offices. Yes the season ticket is £2200 but it's hard to trade off the costs against salary for DH - since his job doesn't exist elsewhere. For me, well our London allowance is much more than the season ticket cost so if I was doing the same job out of London I'd be worse off.

It just depends what you want - we wanted more space, a garden, to have cats we can let outside. So for us it was a no brainer to move out of London.

Having said all that, week after next I start a new job 6 miles away from home - I was so amazed when the job appeared I applied straight away. I am not going to miss the commute, but will miss London. Being able to go shopping at brilliant shops in my lunch hour, a choice of virtually anything I can imagine for lunch within a 10 minute walk, etcetera. I think I take it hugely for granted and it will be a big change to suddenly be working in a quiet residential area 10 minutes drive from a small town centre. However I think my wallet and my waistline will be glad of it...

[Lazyjaney]

I've done villages, small towns, central London and London suburbs.

Essentially you exchange excitement, stimulation for time wasted on a train and square feet by moving out.

The benefits of moving out are very skewed towards the SAHP, the commuting partner gets all the long commutes on crowded trains, not being able to have a quick drink after work etc etc.

Also, don't forget to add in commuting costs to the cost of living mix if you or DP still have to work in London, and they can be quite substantial.

[yamsareyammy]

Your child is only a baby, so I think choices of unis are a bit premature.

I can think of jobs that you can ponly really get in London, and it is a bit of a rub isnt it?
Going from rural, limited types of jobs, to "dream" job, only really available in London, to realising that with said job comes very expensive housing. Which, even if some London salaries were doubled, still makes London housing v expensive.
[can you tell that some of it rings personally true].

I do think, that considering the children's jobs at this stage is again premature. Because, for all you know, they may well want a rural job!

As to commuting into London, well I will leave others to help you with that one.

[amessageforyouYoni]

I am a Londoner and love it here, but I feel your pain re: the expense of living in this city. The price of property in particular is just
eye-watering.

Havent read all the replies, so I apologise if I am repeating what others have said, but what about moving to a commuter town? We have lots of friends who have moved out but still work here.

The other option seems to be to move to a far-out suburb of London, where property is slightly less crazily priced. I am a north londoner, so for us its Enfield, Herts and Middlesex borders etc, but I am told the southern suburbs brancing out in to Kent are cheaper.

[yamsareyammy]

Doesnt your second paragraph contradict your first?
I agree with the second paragraph, still dont understand the first one, sorry.

[DeweyDecibelle]

Thanks for all your thoughts.

Chunderella, the idea of consultancy is a good one I think. DH intends to set up on his own as soon as we have bought a house (waiting so we have less hassle getting a mortgage). I could consult too, but I think you have to be a bit more driven to succeed than I am at the moment with a young baby and planning another shortly, I like the stability of knowing there is a paycheck at the end of the month. Again something to think about for future though.

Yamsareyammy, I do take your point that it is a bit premature to be thinking of unis, jobs etc, my DH would agree with you! But if they want a rural job, or to be something that you can do anywhere like a teacher, or an accountant, it will be easier for them to move that way than if they decide they want to be, say, a museum conservator (one of the jobs I really wanted but couldn't afford to get started in) which you really need to get hands on, low or unpaid experience in. Obviously this wouldn't have to be in London, but the point is, you can do pretty much ANYTHING in London, the choice is massive, they will have no restraints. But yes, it is premature!!

I think I need to weigh up the costs (financial and time) of commuting, as we are both able to commute by bus at the moment, DH often walks, so his travel costs are between £50-60 a month and mine are £70-80. Moving outwards would significantly increase this. They need to bring in a part time travel card!

[primallass]

Even when we were living there we were on the outskirts and I would further north rather than going into the city.

However, I really shafted my career moving away from London. I still wouldn't go back though.

[Bowlersarm]

I loved living in London. It was a tough decision to move away, and the idea causes me great anxiety.

For about a minute. Never looked back from day 1 and so wished we had done the move away much much earlier.

I don't even like going back to London now to visit friends/see the sights.

[SilverOldie]

I lived in my flat in London for 26 years until I retired 8 years ago and moved 50 miles out to Buckinghamshire. Yes I wanted a garden which I now have and love, yes (because I'm disabled) its lovely to be on ground floor level BUT I still miss Fulham where I lived, almost every single day.

Your choice of course.

[noobieteacher]

lessons LOADS of people with children stay in London. All my friends are from outside London and have had children and stayed.

piratecat I admire your honesty, you should trust your instinct and move back. There are loads of things to keep children occupied but I must say the drop off a bit when they reach teenage. But you won't have to ferry him about places, he will get there himself, he will make friends quickly as there are just SO many people to choose from.

I was always tempted to move out as I grew up here and my Mum still lives here but over the last 15 years London has changed beyond recognition. It's clean and organised now, far more like a European city than the grimy city I grew up in.

[yamsareyammy]

Chunderella. Yes, my post was to you.

I think, that where I disagree with what you are saying is because[and I appreciate I could be wrong], I am looking at things from a slightly different angle to you[which I dont want to go into], and because, thankfully, my youngest has just managed to escape the higher fees.

I have several children, 3 of which have been through uni.
They all studied diverse subjects. All looked into where the best places for their courses were, and the places were geographically diverse.
Child 1 - 2 places, one southern, one northern.
Child 2 - Admittedly did have a few unis which would have served him well enough?, but 1 better than the rest.
child 3 - 1 was heads above all the others.
Now admitedly, they were all able to get into where they wanted.
But my point is, and suppose at this point I do come apart at the seams slightly, I suppose if we were to have been geographically in a certain area of Britain, they could just poss have lived at home?
May have slightly shot myself in the foot actually.

But for me, I suppose having several children, which many people will not have, and mine willing to go to whereever the degree course that suited them best, and definitely the fees being so high now, may make the situation different to in the future.

Not sure whether I have won or lost now!

[yamsareyammy]

But actually, still dont see why the op has to park herself somewhere now to try and deal with a uni situation that may not happen?
Why not deal with that problem in 15 years, and meanwhile deal with the situation that she has now.
Or have I missed something?

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

What chunderella says is true for university. DH and I went to university in New Zealand. We've been paying fees since the 90s. What happened is all the Aucklanders stayed at home throughout their university years, and hence have a massive headstart above people from rural area. DH is from rural, and was living in the living room of a shared flat, because that is all he could afford. And he ended up with a huge student loan. My family lives in Auckland, and my brother and I stayed at home. Don't forget that unpaid internships will be in the cities too, and if you live near a big one, your chances of being able to take up one is higher. (As it will cost you less). Obviously if you have very well off parents, it doesn't matter where they live.

This didn't have to be London. But commutable distance to a vibrant city is an advantage.

[yamsareyammy]

Are there that many jobs that require unpaid internships though?
About 10 out of 230 at a wild guess?

[middleclassdystopia]

I know i'm going to get flamed but I can't understand why anyone would want to live and bring up a family in London.

Exspensive, crowded, polluted etc. I live in Scotland where there is stunning countryside and fresh, clean air. Easy access to Edinburgh/Glasgow and better standard of living for the children. No worries about schooling.

I say this because I get a little sick of the London and South East centricity. It has become a status thing. There are great things about it. I like that it is multi cultural, the history. But I find a lot of people are anti immigration and never utilise the cultural sites because its just too dear and busy.

What's the point?

[CitrusSunshine]

Surely moving just a bit further out and commuting is something you could look at?

I lived in London for many years before having DD and absolutely loved it! Had some fantastic years and experiences living there and fully appreciated all the benefits for a long time.

However, a couple of years after having DD we decided to move to the 'burbs - near enough that DP still commutes into London and that we can go to London for days out to museums etc in school holidays. But far enough away that we have managed to swap a flat for a (small) house and I have been able cut my working hours/ salary significantly which we could NEVER have done had we stayed.

I was extremely worried about how much I would miss London when I left but to my surprise I don't miss it at all...DD is very happy and I don't think your DC having a good start in life is location-dependent.

[YoungBritishPissArtist]

OP, you say you grew up somewhere extremely rural, so did I and it was miserable! No public transport and I was completely reliant on my parents to drive me everywhere. I so wanted to be independent and felt stifled. I'm sure this goes without saying, but bear this in mind if you move.

I moved to London as an adult, I'm still here and love it I'm single with no DC and live in a tiny flat, but I'm happy to compromise on space to live in a world city.

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

middleclassdystopia I'm very lucky that both DH and I have good jobs outside of London in the tech industry. Unfortunately it's very very London centric. 90/100 positions open I've seen are in London. The remaining 10 would be in the SE. (Technically I live in the SE, but near the south coast. I'm really outing myself here)! It's not a status thing. It's just how it is. If you have to look outside London, it's doubly hard for couples who are both working in professional fields. You might get one job outside London, but how about two? It might not be viable if one has to SAH.

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

YoungBritishPissArtist the problem ofc is that in the UK you can't drive until you are 18! I can't believe they suggest raising it up to 21. We start driving at 15 because you can't get anywhere without a car in NZ.