To wonder what the point of marriage vows are if people won't stick to them?

[superstarheartbreaker]

In my opinion a promise is a promise. I do get a bit annoyed when I read about the amount that people cheat and think that the term 'til death do us part' should be rephrased as 'lets stay together until I find someone cuter/fitter/more compatible.'
I have never been married but would love to be. I just know that I would have to be 100% sure about the person to make such a big promise. I know that people change all the time so I think that the marriage vows should be rephrased for modern times. It's quite sad though isn't it? I am very glad that most women don't say 'love, honour and obey' though!

[KUGA]

If you break marriage vows you are an arse hole .
If you find out your dh/dw has cheated on you the trust has gone forever and will never come back.
Hope the slag/scum bag is happy with the hurt they have caused you for the rest of your life.
They wake up daily thinking about it and go to bed doing the same.
Well done scumbag.
And watch this space.

[TartinaTiara]

I got married half expecting it not to work out; I was straight out of school, and we wanted to live together, not get married, but living together wasn't an option in the time and place we were then without marriage. I didn't promise to love him forever; I didn't and still don't believe you can make a promise to love someone forever - nobody can know with any real certainty how they'll feel next Tuesday, let alone years into the future. What I could (and did) do was to promise that I would always be his friend and treat him kindly. You can't control your feelings, but you can control how you behave.

In the event, it didn't work out; we divorced a little while ago, but it lasted for nearly 35 years, and I believe that even after the divorce, he'd say I kept my promise.

One of his promises in the wedding service was to adorn me with gold and silver - the gold was the wedding ring, but he had to give me a silver coin as well. I can't recall ever hearing that as part of the "normal" vows, but apparently it was part of the traditional catholic service. Didn't see much gold or silver afterwards, mind.

[Jan49]

I got married in a registry office so we didn't say "til death us do part" but we did say some words that implied that. I meant them and I'm sure my h did too. But eventually he chose to end the marriage. I don't think what we promised would really make any difference. To me it seemed obvious we would stay together forever and the ceremony was just a nice occasion.

Actually if you just say the official registry office words, you're not making any promises about your behaviour, just declaring you are free to marry and do marry this person, so if you think people shouldn't make promises about being faithful, that's a way to do it.

[greenbananas]

When I asked DH why he wanted to marry me, he said it was because he wanted me to be his next of kin. Sounds pretty permanent to me.

We have had a lot of rocky patches, but I can't see us ever breaking the promises we made. Apart from anything else, we can't afford to leave each other!

His parents are still together and I come from a broken home, so staying together is important to both of us for different reasons.

[Darkesteyes]

It depends if you want to include ALL vows in that statement OP
For instance some people only want to cherry pick the vows they want to keep and leave the rest.
There are a lot of marriages that are sexless/affectionless so the "mutual comfort" vow isnt being kept yet they then expect their partner to stand by the "forsaking all others" vow.

[scarletforya]

I think marriage is unrealistic and fails to take account of human nature.

From an evolutionary point of view we seek the highest quality mate we can manage to get. That's not going to remain the same for ever.

People do 'trade up'. It's a fact. To my mind marriage is a flawed attempt to make a temporary deal permanent. But human relationships don't really work that way.

How can anyone sign a load of paperwork saying they will be with this one person for the rest of their life. Terrifying.

Be with the person you are with until that no longer works and then move on I say!

[fedupofnamechanging]

I can't see the point in getting married at all, if it's not with the genuine intention that it will be a forever deal. Okay, things don't always work out, but there is little point to it if, in the back of your mind, you are thinking it's okay to break promises or bail if things get a bit tough or someone else you fancy comes along.

Of course it will only work out if both partners place equal value in the promises made (and obviously if one of them isn't an abusive twat).

Fixed term marriages or ones where vows are not intended to be forever, would not be real marriages - they would just be shagging contracts, with no value, because nobody would really be properly committed. people would always have one eye on the way out and would not feel they could depend on their spouse no matter what.

[EagleRiderDirk]

happy as someone who is about to get married for the second time, to the father of my dcs - sometimes the kids happen first and you'd rather not go shotgun. We got engaged just before finding I'd fallen with DC1, then sorting out a house seemed more important, then DC2 happened. Its not that marriage isn't important to us, just our timeline got a bit screwed up.

[anklebitersmum]

Pre 2001 if you weren't married then father of said child had no PR. If you weren't married and DP died then you had no widows pension rights either (don't know if that's still the case or not).

Not very romantic but valid reasons to tie the knot when you have offspring.

In all honesty I think it's very very easy to talk about how 'people don't take vows seriously' and 'if they worked as hard on their marriage as they do their affairs' etc etc when you have no experience of a 'bad' marriage-either from inside or outside.

I had similar opinions in my mid twenties until reality crept up and slapped me

[happyyonisleepyyoni]

What I don't understand is why people get married after they have had DC. If marriage is that important to you, why have children outside of it?

[Dahlen]

LaRegina - I think the problem is not that divorce is too easy but that marriage is.

[EagleRiderDirk]

When I married xH I don't think we did the till death do us part vows, in fact I'm pretty sure we didn't. But I took marriage seriously and would have meant it then, and still am somewhat saddened that he didn't at all and also know that my own situation is also common (in that one person takes marriage seriously and the other not at all).

[LaRegina]

I agree superstar as far as finding it all really sad - although I don't know what the answer I, and I think changing the vows would solve nothing.

I think I am lucky (as is DH) to be in the rare position of coming from a family where both our parents stayed together, as did all our grandparents. I don't know if that makes it any easier for us to make things work, but we're still happy and very solid after 15 years. If anything, the longer we're together, the better it gets because the shared experiences and lives over the years have just bonded us closer together.

Maybe I'm just very lucky, but I do think the fact that the idea of divorce is so alien to both of us has as least something to do with it. And I really hope that doesn't sound smug.

[Lottapianos]

'In my world no one would get married without being able to pass some sort of self-awareness and compatibility test first'

When you are Ruler of The World, can I be your Under-Butler or something? Love it

[Dahlen]

I think when most people get married they simply think that love will conquer all. It's inconceivable to think that you or your partner will make a mockery of "forsaking all others" on your actual wedding day - if it crosses your mind then, chances are you probably shouldn't be getting married - so you think everything will work out ok because you love each other so much. However, IME the sort of people who believe being in love somehow protects themselves and their partners against affairs, are the sort of people who are more vulnerable to them.

In my world no one would get married without being able to pass some sort of self-awareness and compatibility test first.

[Erato]

Legally in England and Wales all you have to say is:
"I do solemnly declare that I know not of any lawful impediment why I, [your name], may not be joined in matrimony to [your partner's name]."
followed by:
"I call upon these persons here present to witness that I, [your name], do take thee [your partner's name] to be my lawful wedded husband [or wife]."
Slight variations for NI and Scotland, but the same basic concept.

So if you don't feel you can make promises about happily ever after you don't have to. The rest of the vows are optional.

I do think marriage is an important commitment and I fully intend to be with my husband until one of us dies, but I don't make any assumptions about it being forever - it's something I'm fully aware needs work every day to keep it alive. And it's not a commitment I've made without any conditions - if DH one day decided to start hitting me I'd be out the door in a flash, for example.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

I got married in my early thirties because I wanted to start a family with DP, and that's what every generation of women before me had done at that point in their lives. We each made promises to be "loving and faithful" to one another for the rest of our lives.

I don't think I really believe in making vows to be with someone until death anymore - or not for me anyway. For lots of reasons, but mainly because relationships and people change over many years.

But I'm still married to DP/DH. This is because for the moment my reckoning is that this is the best situation to remain in to optimise happiness and well-being for myself, DP, and two teenage DCs.

I think regarding relationships I believe more in optimising happiness for all these days, and perhaps I always did.

[marriedinwhiteagain]

Well my vows were: for the avoidance of sin, the procreation of children, and mutual comfort. I don't think the bits about 'til death us do part are the actual vows but I stand to be corrected. What I remember was how profound and binding and spiritual it seemed to make those promises before God and it for the first time, sadly so, struck me in spite of all the thought that went into our future lives, that those promises, in god's eyes were irrevocable.

[Lottapianos]

'I think it was Arthur C. Clarke (early sci-fi writer who predicted the use of the Pill) who used the idea of specific term marriage contracts in a few of his stories, whereby people would contract to be together for a set number of years'

This sounds marvellous! 5 year marriages or whatever, then both parties review the contract and re-negotiate the terms as they want to. Or decide not to renew.

I do think that parenting responsibilities should be set down legally and should be considered apart from the nature of the relationship between the parents.

[gnittinggnome]

I think it was Arthur C. Clarke (early sci-fi writer who predicted the use of the Pill) who used the idea of specific term marriage contracts in a few of his stories, whereby people would contract to be together for a set number of years. This might not be the worst idea in the world!

That said, I am married, and I believe now that I will try to be with my husband till one of us dies - if we hit rocky patches we have promised to try to mend them. I know this may not work out, and mean absolutely no disrespect to people who can't do that for whatever reason, but for me that's what marriage is all about. Very glad that my sisters and mother were able to escape bad marriages, and hope I don't make the full set, but if we do divorce it won't be for lack of trying to keep our marriage alive.

[MadeOfStarDust]

We thought long and hard before getting married.. the only reason we got married was to affirm the view that we want to spend the rest of our lives together.

People change, promises and vows get broken, that is life - but who WOULD get married thinking .....mmm maybe for a while...

[livinginwonderland]

Most people do mean it at the time, but people change. I wouldn't stay with someone who made me miserable just because I'd made marriage promise to them in the past. Not all relationships are meant to last and sometimes it's healthier to leave than to stay for the sake of it.

[CockyFox]

I got married in a registry office and I honestly don't remember what the promises were. I do know that I had and still have every intention of staying married forever as that is what marriage means to me. Nobody in my family or DH's have divorced (by family I mean parents siblings aunts uncles cousins and second cousins) so the wording of the promise wouldn't change my expectations.

[worldgonecrazy]

I never made any such vows when I got married. I did the legal declaration, stated that there were no lawful impediments to the marriage and that I took DH as my lawfully wedded husband, and he did the same (but obviously saying "wife").

My only vow to him was to keep on having as much fun in life as we could and he said something along similar lines. We have made no promises of sickness, health, better worse or even fidelity - we don't need to.

I do think people should think harder about their marriage vows and say stuff that has meaning for them, rather than repeating words written a long time ago by somebody else.