To be fucking raging about sleazy horrible men

[SweetHoneyBeeeeee]

I don't know what it is about me but I seem to attract the unwanted attention of fucking horrible sleazy men I am happily married (not really relevant) and dress quite conservatively but just seem to always be the subject of horrible men running their eyes over me and blowing kisses/dropping their business cards in my lap/hooting/making (very unsubtle) remarks to theirs friends and since even asking for shag in a train full of people. Today has been dress down at work, I am wearing skinny jeans, flats a floaty vest top and a baggy cardi ...to be honest, this morning I looked in the mirror and thought I had overdone the under-dressed look and yet I still get some fucking asshole asking me if I fancy a fuck! No I FUCKING DON'T, FUCK OFF! (Disclaimer: pmt and my mother may have put me in a bad mood today)

[cogitosum]

ehric you're probably right I'm aware of the poster and have thought about it. The reason I haven't is I've had this nn since joining in 2010 and although I'm not prolific on the main boards I've posted a lot in miscarriage particularly within one long running thread and kind of made friends there do didn't want to change. Happily haven't posted there for some time now though and using mumsnet for other topics so may change it

[Liara]

I used to get this a lot when I was young (was also living in a very sexist country, which didn't help).

I agree with staring right back at anyone who is staring at you. Very often arses like this have to work themselves up to it, so if you stare at them they often don't manage to muster up the courage.

I used to think to myself as I looked at them 'not if you were the last man left on earth, loser'. In the beginning I had to make myself think it (I was painfully shy, this helped me to meet their eye). Over time, it became so automatic that friends used to comment on my 'ice queen sneer' as I looked at men who approached me up and down (just as they had me).

[RandomMess]

Hmm I wear sunglasses 95% of the time, perhaps they work as well as a shapeless coat?

[VelvetSpoon]

It really doesn't matter how confident or not you are.

I am more confident than all my friends. In a group, I will be the ONLY one who is singled out.

I used to give as good as I got verbally, stand up for myself, blahblah. Since being told by one bloke he'd punch me in the face for a comment I made (and had to be held back by a friend from doing so) I am more circumspect now, for the sake of my own personal safety.

[FreudiansSlipper]

That might be in your case Velvet

but I know myself I have always been confident with my looks or ok with them but not in myself and the times I have felt vulnerable, alone I have got more of this type of harassment

Since having more inner confidence that is nothing to do with my looks that I have gained since my 30's I have got less of this hassel and my friends have had similar experiences

Sadly many of these men seem to be able to pick up on that. we as women can learn to be more confrontational it is hard when you have not been bought up that way I am glad young women are more confident on the whole about challanging this sort of behaviour but I agree with Mrs DV we seem to have taken a step backwards

[NutsinMay]

This has never happened to me when out and about in normal clothes (as opposed to dressed up to the nines out clubbing etc). Can't think I'm the only one. What vibe do we give off I wonder?
I'm a very shy quite stand offish person so I'm wondering if it happens more to people whose body language is more open and welcoming.(Just trying to understand really why you are being targeted or are you all very beautiful?).

For example my mum always gets asked for directions etc by strangers and I almost never do.

[lookoveryourshouldernow]

...Shit isn't it..

I'm invisible and men just walk right through me !!!

[Sheshelob]

I think there is a vibe you can give out that nips a lot of the sleazy shit in the bud (all but the most psychopathic creep). I have had to learn to do it for work and I subsequently have no hassle. Ever. Even when dolly-birded up to the nines.

But I am also very tall, which I think helps no end. Difficult for someone to successfully intimidate you when they can't see past your shoulder.

[Earthymama]

Here is everyday sexism
Become part of this movement to address this attitude towards woman of all ages.
It is part of the spectrum of abuse that allows men to perpetrate acts like the grooming of young girls in Oxford.

[idlevice]

Sigh....I know this harassment has always gone on but I wonder if any increase in it could be yet another side effect of internet porn being so widely accessed & the fact a lot of it seems to have a humiliating, power over the women type theme? There also seems to be a type of porn where the men just approach women they don't know in the street or invite them into their car & just get on with it, which is what made me think of a possible link.

[EleanorFarjeon]

I bought a man's top from a men's clothes shop.

When I got home the guy that served me had put in a slip of card with his name and number in the bag.

Un. Believable.

[tallwivglasses]

Women's Hour Modern Feminism. Worth a listen.

[Sheshelob]

Ugh. I think that must be right, idle.

God, men were creepy enough when I was younger - 90s - and there was no widespread Internet. Porn was still the domain of "private shops". Now anyone can get it on their phone.

Things can only get worse.

[FreudiansSlipper]

I agree I think it is to do with the influence of porn and that women are up for it all the time

I once had a man follow me down the road slowly in his car. wtf was he thinking. And a few men who have delivered things or worked in my home have then contacted me to ask me out. One I reported to the police for harassment. Now I have the ex's clothes hanging about when I have workmen in :(

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

But.. I actually dont know if a man asking you out counts as sleazy! I mean, yeah, if a plumber comes to fix something, and stands too close, and asks about your personal life, and then asks you out that could be intimidating. But a man putting his card in your bag? I dont think that is so terrible. Am i missing something? please explain it to me- i have an open mind.

[nicecupofteaandbiscuit]

I was walking down the street recently and an older man (60s) was walking towards me. He slowed down as if he wanted to ask for directions or something, so I stopped. He said "Well Miss, I've just been watching you walk down the street, and I have to say very nice, very nice" and proceeded to look directly down my top. I wasn't wearing a revealing top btw, just a normal plain v neck (not low) from H&M.

I walked off in a huff, but wished I had said something.

[FreudiansSlipper]

I do not think it is appropriate for a man to use his job as a way to ask women out but many unfortunately do

[Sheshelob]

Nice - you should have said,

"Funny, I was watching you walk and I thought, 'Very old. Very old."

And then rocked out your best patro-smile.

[Fakebook]

Eurgh. I've had 2 cars beep at me this week. Two different men, one put down his sunglasses and winked [shivers] and the other had a passenger give the once over as they drove away. Both times I was with a pushchair and am quite visibly pregnant and never dress inappropriately. Disgusting people.

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

Well, I guess it depends how it happens. I once hit it off with a guy who came to lay my lino, and he asked me out. It wasn't done in a creepy way- we were chatting- i wasn't offended. If he had acted creepy, or touched me in any way that would have been different.
I went out with him, we had nothing in common,and it ended there,but as far as i was concerned we were both single and he was respectful so no harm done.
I mean, you meet people at work sometimes. When i was a waitress i dated customers once or twice too, because that's where i met people.
There is a really big difference between a man shouting comments about your body in the street , and a man giving you his number on the offchance.

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

Hope my last post doesn't come across like I am trying to excuse the sleazebags- just feel its important to make the distinction between male interest and harassment.

[FreudiansSlipper]

It is different if you have been chatting and there is some sort of interest from both sides. sadly some choose to ignore politeness and choose to see it as flirting

But to just put a card in a bag or text someone because you like the look of them and you have sussed out they are single is just not on and the only reason they have your number is work related

[Darkesteyes]

And here is another site

everydayvictimblaming.com/view-most-recent-submissions/


Saying that its down to the way you conduct yourself whether you get harassed or not IS victim blaming.
Its like saying that its a womans fault that shes raped if shes wearing revealing clothes. That IS victim blaming.
If a not very confident and quiet guy walked past would most womens reaction be to yell a derogatory comment like "Hey needle dick" And IF that happened do you really think that guy would be thinking "oh my God it must be my fault for not exuding confidence JESUS I cant believe we are STILL having to point all this out in 2013.

[FreudiansSlipper]

It is not victim blaming ffs

predatory men often sense women who they can pick as victims, it may not even be a conscious thought but what they choose to say or do is. that is not blaming the women in anyway they are to blame

I know from personal experience i have received more harassment when I have felt vulnable I do not blame myself I blame the men that wanted to make me feel even more so and glad I recognise that there are men like this about

[Sheshelob]

I don't think it is victim blaming, actually. And you don't have to explain what it is as I'm fully versed, thanks.

If we are in agreement that this behaviour is endemic and intimidating, how is advising women to face up to it victim blaming? Of course men shouldn't be doing it in the first place - that is a given - but why should women who encounter it not face it down, and call these fuckers on their shit?

What should they do instead? Wait for society to change? And how might it do that if there aren't people confronting sleazy behaviour? Shall we get anti-sexist squads to hit the streets, or some nice men to tell the nasty ones off for us?

I'd be really careful about accusing people of victim blaming in this context. It is unhelpful and inaccurate.