not to be overjoyed that a mother of four is being sent to jail for massive benefit fraud?

[bigmouthstrikesagain]

story here

I just wonder what will happen to the children in this case. The crime Amanda Webber committed is serious and she should be punished but taking the mother away from her 8 children for up to 4 years will have a damaging effect on these children. The sentence should be in the community and involve her paying back society with work, making a contribution - not being housed in a prison.

This is not to undermine the seriousness of the offence I just can't see the 'benefit' to society of locking this person up - she is not dangerous - she does need to accept what she has done is so very wrong and make amends this can be done in a community sentence surely. The children should not be punished if it can be avoided.

Just my thoughts on hearing the news.

Haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if this has already been mentioned, but surely some blame must lie with those departments and agencies that allowed her to get away with making these fraudulent claims, as they can't have been making the necessary checks.

I hope serious questions are being asked of them too, and disciplinary action taken where appropriate.

These cases always seem to be discovered after anonymous tip-offs. It's mad that the benefit system has to rely on the general public to uncover fraud. It should not be allowed to happen in the first place.

Agree Helen.

YABU. It sounds like she wanted an upper middle-class life for herself (almost certain that is her background too) and her children but at taxpayer's expense. She could have done that legitimately by entering politics....

YABU.

And I don't agree with people saying that she should be let off prison as it would be cheaper and better for the children.

YABU

Do the crime, do the time.

She knew perfectly well what she was doing.

You can't have one penalty for people who have children, and another penalty for those who don't.

YABU. Lots of criminals have children. You can't have one rule for one set of criminals and another for the rest.

She knew what she was doing and she knew she could get sent to prison and be separated from her kids. Presumably she thought that the judge wouldn't send her to prison because she has kids and she could carry on with just a slap on the wrist.

I think too many people get off being properly punished because they have children and use this as an excuse. Although it is sad on the children, she is the one who caused this for her children and perhaps they will have a better influence if they are not living with a mother who is happy to indulge in fraud and sets a bad example to her kids?

I have zero sympathy for HER. She claimed DLA etc for 12 years. Back then, and even now, it is no surprise that minimal checks weren't made.
And yet, extremely deserving children are denied DLA. Makes me so MAD.

YABU.

Being a mother does not and should not exclude you from going to prison if you've committed a crime.

Saintly I also vaguely knew her, she runs a theatre school with a name and particularly nice animation implying a SN provision, but nothing about why, or obvious provision for them in any of the services offered. Closer reading gives the name was because ?they were ?different? from other schools.?

She was selling herself as a musical director (either husband or a son was listed as staff) and publicised her children as having ?caught the acting bug from her?, and ?all been trained by their mother? and their successes, but never mentioning either them, or other pupils having SN?s, or the school offering provision for SN?s other than a single line on one page ?we have much experience in children with special needs.?

It seemed odd that so much was implied by the name and animation, but not specified, and I was suspicious, but of something different. It's making sense now.

I think I know how she backed up her claims, and the authorities would have had a hard time unravelling it.

I don?t feel great about her going to prison, but people like her are part of why people like me are afraid to claim DLA.

I need people to trust and believe me when I say visibly severely brain damaged d/d can do some things that she doesn?t look like she can and help her try, and help less visible high achieving d/s with ASD, when we ask for access arrangements, help, supervision, mentoring, and understanding, (not money) especially when he?s lost the plot and stopped knowing how to cope.

Often the only thing I can say to people who say ?he doesn?t look like he needs it?, or who are disbelievingly shocked on discovering him not coping, or what his paperwork says, is why do you think a teen would live like, or do this, if they didn?t have to?

It?s a compelling argument that grants acceptance, until people like her supply them with an alternative answer.

She portrays herself as an autism mum. That's how I knew her. And she says on her twitter page that she's an autism expert.

I wonder whether the kids have been told they are autistic when they aren't? If so she deserves a few years for that.

more than likely they thought they were autistic it is sickening she did this to her children she probably has no shame, horrible manipulative person, asd is very difficult to get diagnosed sometimes, I think she was an aspirational snob who got what she deserved

It is a shame for her children as they have committed no crime. However, she has committed a serious fraud offence by theft of public money. I am not overjoyed but agree totally with the penalty. If you started saying oh but this person has children where does it end. Community service for a crime involving the theft of £350K. No.

Despite impressions to the contrary I do not have sympathy for the benefit fraudster, I do question the utility of a prison sentence - not just due to costs. I do not think Amanda Webber should be allowed to 'get away' with anything. Hearing her story prompted a train of thought which I shared with MN - in a way she is a bad example as her fraud is so very extreme and despicable.

I do think it is unhelpful to place 'criminals' in a classification of their own deserving to all be treated the same. It is not true, crimes are not all the same. The people who commit crimes are not all the same.

Many people who would not consider themselves 'criminals' do something against the law in their lifetimes - speeding, under age drinking, serving drinks to someone under age, taking recreational drugs, stealing from a shop 'by accident', so many petty crimes and more serious ones. Knowingly and deliberately and repeatedly defrauding the state is a terrible crime, but is a prison sentence the only recourse? I do not know, I just wanted to ask a question. Many people are content with the prison sentence. That is fine, I just wonder if there are other ways that people can be made to address their offending behavior in a way that could help others. That a devious mind could be turned to make a positive contribution. I am not a Christian but I do believe it is possible to redeem people.

If crime and punishment policy was purely decided on a majority rules basis then I imagine that we would have very severe sentencing and the death penalty. I am not sure the US example is very reassuring in modelling that approach. I would not feel safer in a state where convicted criminals are killed. Obviously I am in a minority - that does not make me feel safe either

I'm surprised that people were asked to provide lots of evidence. My ds received DLA from 2002 as he has an autistic spectrum disorder. I filled in the forms and that included giving names of specialists he'd seen, the expert who diagnosed him, his teacher and GP, but I was never asked for further evidence and I've no idea if anyone I'd named was ever contacted for proof and I was never asked for anything. So if they didn't contact anyone, they had no proof of anything. It's a horrible form to fill in but other than that my ds's claim seemed straightforward.

I'm not sure what you mean BigMouth - that you are in a minority of what, and feel unsafe how?

I can't believe she got away with this - how did she manage to get the applications past decision makers without medical and school reports?

There are lost of people with genuine claims who get rejected because the decision makers are very tough.

Bigmouth you may be in a minority - but do not feel alone. There are others of us who feel similarly.

minority regarding my opinion on crime and punishment - and that if we had a death penalty again and most people supported it I would not feel safer.

I agree BM - and all the hysteria and vengeful comments about the dreadful crime in Woolwich don't help. Lynch mob mentality makes me feel very unsafe.

Thanks Donki - I am probably considered all wibbly, PC and liberal - but all this knee jerk vitriol over the internet is horrible, so was the murder. Division and suspicion seems to me to play into the hands of the twisted men that killed the soldier.

Bigmouth, I can see where you?re coming from. In this case if what this woman has done is what it seems she has, then it goes past simple fraud and theft, as she?s indirectly damaged so many people who are already very vulnerable to being suspected of not needing help, and that is a hidden outcome of her crime which I feel needs a huge deterrent outcome to stop others.

I can?t see a restitution based approach achieving that, and frankly if you told me I could give my children an amazing life full of opportunities through crime, and then pay for it later in ways that didn?t affect them, given that I can?t achieve it any other way, you?d lay huge temptation at my feet.

I don?t find her unredeemable as a person but think you have to look at the big picture as to what is most or least damaging to society case by case.

To the best of my knowledge she's left and is in a different relationship, the children will stay either with dad, or the new partner, she'll serve around two years if she plays the game, and nasty and hideous as it sounds, actually the children do need a clear message that their mum's descisions aren't those of a heroic mum giving them a wonderful life of opportunity.

When your parents commit crime as a way of life, you get punished in many ways and it can't be avoided.

that should say choose to commit crime as a way of life...

Just I think looking at a bigger picture is exactly what is needed - maybe to provide better support for the children of prisoners, maybe to find better methods of rehabilitation.

Prison at the moment is not notably successful in its intentions - and in the US where the laws tend to be even more draconian, and prisons more inhumane (as I understand it), there is a larger proportion of the population in gaol, so it does not look much like a successful deterrent either.

A higher certainty of being caught would (I think the evidence shows, but I am not going to go and look for references now) be a much better deterrent. However I realise that this might be difficult to achieve, especially without making the barriers to legitimate claims more difficult to overcome.

I don't think that there are any easy answers - and I am uncomfortably aware that the inhumane "penitentiaries" in the US originated in the best of intentions from Christians (Quakers!) trying to find a way of making prison work as rehabilitation by giving prisoners time to reflect on their crimes and repent...

I'm shocked she managed to get all that? DS2 did have problems and I didn't get a penny even though his problems meant I couldn't work. Thankfully he's outgrown them and is so settled. I start full time work soon something that would've been very difficult a year ago. But I didn't get a penny's help.

But this woman is appalling. She should go to prison. No sympathy whatsoever. There are many who could do with some extra cash but don't get it.

YABU, tbh I struggle to describe anyone who pretends their children has multiple, severe disabilities just because they want money as a 'parent' at all.