There should be a 9-month qualifying period for mat/pat leave.

[garlicgrump]

A few recent threads have made me think about this. I think it's hopelessly wrong that a woman can get a new job while knowing she's pregnant, then bugger off for a year's mat leave. AIBU?

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Faster, wouldn't the operation be sick leave, not holiday?

[FasterStronger]

you wouldn't just phone in sick the day of an operation would you?

[FasterStronger]

how i deal with sickness is full pay is discretionary. so if someone gave warning for a planned operation, i would pay full rate, but if someone told me at the last minute they would have to manage on SSP after a small number of days (i forget the details of the contract)

as i said most people seem to be reasonable but people who are a pain really need getting rid of & i would not do them any favours. i would give them their legal rights and no more.

[HopALongMcLimpyLegs]

My employer would not expect me to use my holiday to cover a medical leave unless I wanted to use it. And not only is it a small organisation, it's a third sector org do money is incredibly tight and my job is hard to cover. Two weeks notice is fair. Trekking them that you might need to go in to hospital at some point but don't know when our for how long so they can't make any actual plans probably doesn't even help the company.

[FasterStronger]

doctrine - i have done a quick check on the operation = holiday or sick leave.

and its not clear cut.

sometimes it will be better for both parties to agree it is holiday so the employee gets paid (whatever their contract terms regarding sick pay) and the employer knows in advance.

like most things, as long as everyone's sensible, something reasonable all round can be agreed.

[ChocolateCakePlease]

fasterstronger - you have gotten mr back mixed up with mr operation. Mr bad back left a few years ago after being appauled we wanted to write to his doctor to make sure he was fit for work because he got better as soon as his sick pay ended after laying the back problem on so thick for 6 months.

Mr operation is a currant employee. We treat holiday and sick pay as two seperate things. This employee will be entitled to SSP. SSP is done because you get payed from the 4th day you are off sick so it puts pay to people taking random sick days for a hangover/lay ins/can't be bothered days which used to happen often. Oddly no one has just one or two days off sick anymore - i guess when you know you won' be paid for 1 day off sick you think twice about it.

I want to get it across that i do not begrudge the poor man an operation and he has done what is required by law - given 7 days notice. That was not why i was peeved (i have calmed down now i was just peeved at the fact in this instance he could have been more helpful in the way he went about things. Phoning my dh up at 7.30pm in the evening and saying in a very grumpy unhelpful tone "i'm going in for an operation next week and i won't be back for 2-4 months or maybe longer" is not the way to go about things imo.

For instance the other employee last year who does a key role went for an operation on his hand meaning he was going to be off for a month because his job involves using his hands with pressure and he wasn't allowed to put pressure on it. He explained everything, said what was happening and when which meant the business could be planned around it and it all went ok. He had a completely different attitude and it all went smoothly because of it and i agree with fasterstronger when they say usually when an employee is helpful the employer is less enclined to do the minimum and more likely to to the favour.

[ChocolateCakePlease]

"I can think of quite a few situations whereI need medical treatment that would require time off at short notice and that I might not want to discuss with my boss. I have a right to a private life, and ifI was confident my boss was going to go home and discuss it with his wife, I might not be so keen to let them know it was happening that far in advance."


In our case my dh isn't just coming home and discussing it with his wife, i work there and i have a role in helping run the business, i do the wages and the bookwork as well as many other roles.

[samandi]

Maternity LEAVE, no. Maternity pay, perhaps. I wouldn't disagree with shorter maternity leave though.

[ChocolateCakePlease]

"I think the starting point for each party is to act reasonably and expect to be treated reasonably. of course some people aren't..."


Yes exactly. For instance we have a (shop) employee who comes in, does the job, always helpful, does favours from time to time and acts reasonable and friendly to her employer. Last year she got married and was going to take a week unpaid holiday as holiday. We not only let her have the week off she wanted (that was outside her holiday allowance) but we also paid her for that week too so she had an extra week holiday. She is such a loyal member of staff and we showed gratitude.

Another (shop) member of staff has attitude, isn't nice to me, takes the piss at every oppertunity, won't dare start work 30 seconds before she has too, does the minimum she possibly has to so you know what, she gets the minimum from us required by law.

[HorryIsUpduffed]

ChocolateCake you really need to stop digging.

[FasterStronger]

horry you are a shit stirrer

[ChocolateCakePlease]

What am i digging exactly?

[HorryIsUpduffed]

I am reading your posts in some horror. You may think they show you in a good light but they don't all.

[ChocolateCakePlease]

Why because i reward good workers and not piss takers?

[FasterStronger]

horry - which employment law do you think chocolatecake has broken?

I don't think she has but I am wondering what the issue is.

[ChocolateCakePlease]

Sorry, I do sound very grumpy. I just get peeved off sometimes and let it all get on top of me. I am not mean to the staff, I keep my rants in my head. If something needs addressing work wise I will always do it in a polite manner and not show my annoyance.

One thing though, my dh went in to talk to mr operation about sick pay etc and said we would need a sick note or letter in the next few weeks and he said he couldn't provide one? I thought the doctor or hospital would provide one?

[garlicgrump]

NHS guidance on fit notes, with links to govt info like this page.

Unless he thinks you're wanting him to bring a note in person, I don't see why he said he couldn't provide one! You need it by law, don't you?

[ChocolateCakePlease]

Yes. Dh said he could post it and didn't give the impression he wanted it NOW, he just said casually in the next few week could he post it. Mr operation said he couldn't give one. Will have to look into this because it is very odd.

[HorryIsUpduffed]

I think openly treating staff differently even if they take the piss breeds discontent.

I think discussing staff with other members of staff is unprofessional. Discussing your staff with your wife is normal, but once she works for you that line is blurred.

I don't think any law has been broken. I just don't think you're describing best practice by any stretch.

[maddening]

It sounds like something major has broken down in that employee/employer relationship then - if he was always a v good and valued employee now suddenly being obstructive it sounds odd - is this a big life changing/risky operation? Maybe fear - I am recovering from a hernia op - v routine etc but even that brought it's worries and reovery has been tough so I could imagine that a big op could bring that out in a person - if he is worried about death, pain, how he's going to cope etc then questions about when he will be back and faff (albeit reasonable faff) about sick notes might seem like petty annoyances.

If you as employers and he as an employee are normally both reasonable and get on well then something is amiss - the only logical answer (if your husband's approach has been nothing more than appropriate and sensitive) is that the op man is shit scared?

[ChocolateCakePlease]

Horry - I do not work for my husband, I am not his employee, I don't get a wage like the employees, the profits come in to our household from the family business. So no one is discussing staffs business with employees. We certainly wouldn't be discussing anything like that with staff.

Maddening he has been with us less then a year mr operation so he is a fairly new employee and my dh didn't see him that much because he worked nights. My dh discovered when mr operation left that a machine that only mr op uses has been broken through not using it properly. It is not a dangerous machine at all but it is going to cost a few hundred to replace a part for it.

[TiredFeet]

I applied for jobs when pregnant last time, and didn't say. Because I have a condition that means I have a higher risk of miscarriage so there were no guarantees it would be ok. Why should I risk missing out on a job for something that in the early weeks is more a possibility than a probability?

[garlicgrump]

Why should I risk missing out on a job

Well, I didn't suggest you should risk missing out on a job. I suggested you shouldn't take it for granted that your job would still be there for you, if you decided you still wanted it, a year and a half later.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Op, so what is your reasonable alternative if a woman takes a new job when pregnant, or a man takes a job when his partner is pregnant?

[garlicgrump]

Well, Doc, I gave up on reaching a firm position about halfway through the thread! Trouble with AIBU, hardly anybody reads the other posts; even the OP's own. Oh well.

I tend to feel that pregnant people who are just starting in jobs should probably be prepared to quit after/during parental leave. I still think they should get the pay they do now. Different employers would have improved policies, as they do now, and I'm sure most would be amenable to negotiation of some sort.

I can see this isn't ideal. As I also posted upthread, I have disabilities and am not protected to anything like the same extent. I realise pregnancy isn't a disability! But I recognise the reasons why I don't have that level of protection, and I'm not sure this particular concession to pregnancy is advantageous to women, in particular.