to think 'you can do anything if you try' is not a helpful message?

[ChasedByBees]

I've just watched something on ceebeebies where the moral of the story was 'you can do anything if you try'.

Well no, I can't fly without mechanical aids, I can't invent a new col

[TSSDNCOP]

You can often do lots more than you think you can if you try.

No, we cannot all be good at everything, but that's no reason to not give it your best shot. I'll never be great at maths, but I worked very hard at it so that at least I'm not bamboozled by basic arithmetic, fractions etc.

I'm one of those that applies themselves to a task, and consequently succeed more often than not and surprising myself in the process.

[50shadesofvomit]

If you fail at something, try and try again or practice makes perfect would be better lessons to teach.

Disclaimer I hate the words perfect and fail but I cant think of any proverb/quote to explain just because you can't do it at first, it doesn't mean you'll never be able to do it and the more you practice, the better you'll get.
I think that many children will understand the sayings as there were times that they couldn't walk/ride a bike or whatever but they can do it easily now because they were brave and went for it and practiced the skill.

[TSSDNCOP]

And you invent new colours all the time if you worked at Farrow and Ball

[marriedinwhiteagain]

If you are realistic you can reach any realistic aim you set yourself. For example my DS loves history and wants to go to a top uni - he will not get innto oxford to read history but might if he combines it with classics and has an offer to do so; he has an offer to read history at Durham but needs more points for that than for the combined degree at oxford due to the competition over history. Ultimately he wants to be a war correspondent and has joined to TA towards achieving that aim. Not what his father and I would have chosen for him but we cannot criticise his tenacity and the way he has researched achieving his aims.

I think you shoud aim for the stars but be happy if you stop at a lingering cloud because just beyond it will be a rainbow of hope and cheerfulness.

[cory]

I think "you can always get better at things" is a good thing to teach, "you can always achieve the level you want" not so much. I could get better at ballet dancing if I tried. I could never be a ballerina. Ds has got a lot better at football. But with his loose joints and flat feet he could never be a professional footballer. I think we need to recapture the sense that it is still worth doing things at an amateur level, even if they don't bring us fame and glory.

[ParsingFancy]

Hah. Years ago I had this very argument with a friend.

I said some people would never be physically able to run a marathon or climb Mt Everest. He said if they set their sights on running to the end of the road, and achieved that instead, it would be like the same thing.

Amusingly, I then became seriously ill while another friend was indeed scaling Everest. We compared notes afterwards, and walking to the end of the road was harder for me than his (with oxygen) climb.

But I can definitively state: it ain't the same thing. View's nowhere near as good.

[LynetteScavo]

Yeah, you can do anything if you want to enough.

I spent hours jumping off things, flapping my arms (and sometimes a blanket) as a child convinced I would fly if only I tried hard enough.

It's bollocks.

Luckily I never wanted to or tried to swim the Atlantic.

[cory]

I like that, marriedinwhite.

Dd wants to go into acting. We have had many discussions about the possibilities, the ind of thing your might be aiming for and what a suitable Plan B might be.

[piprabbit]

If at first you don't succeed, try, try and try again.

With the emphasis on trying different approaches until you find one that works.

[DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved]

I think knowing when to give up is just as an important message, which we seem to ignore. Giving up can be a very good thing, the right thing, the thing that means you still have your health, your life, your well being.

I wish I'd known that giving up isnt the same as failing.

[trice]

Most people have some talent or aptitude for something - a thing that they can do better than most with little effort. They will also have things that they find harder to do than other people. They will be better at whatever it is if they work at it. Success in any arena needs grit and hard work as well as luck and aptitude.

Life is not fair. In fact it quite often sucks.

[Technotropic]

How about:

No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings -William Blake

Success is 99 percent failure - Soichiro Honda

Works for me.

[RenterNomad]

I think this phrase is loads better than the loathsome : "You can do anything: you've just got to BELIEVE." Lazy sods...

[chandellina]

I think it's a brilliant message and you often hear successful people say that they were repeatedly told it by a parent or teacher. I think children pretty much work out for themselves that it doesn't apply to flying.

[CreatureRetorts]

Our phrase is if you don't shoot you don't score.

So of course some things are impossible - that's a silly reason to discount the idea of effort.

[Currywurst]

I so,so agree that this message is not helpful. I teach in further education and I am absolutely fed up with students who have absorbed this belief. I can't tell you how many students won't accept that they haven't succeeded at something.

Parents and teachers seem to think that telling young people that wanting something or believing in yourself is enough. Add that to the X Factor mentality that if you give 110% you will be rewarded. There's also an element of a belief in 'because I'm worth it, I deserve it'

I went to a really crap school with very low aspirations,I know that's not good either. The trouble is the bolstering of self esteem that seems to go on nowadays has reached unrealistic levels.

You need very hard work,resilience and persistence to succeed. Plus perhaps some innate talent,an understanding of when to give up. And,finally,some humility. If you don't succeed at something maybe it's because it's not the right thing for you. We don't have the right to succeed at everything just because we want to.

[cory]

chandellina Mon 13-May-13 20:23:33
"I think it's a brilliant message and you often hear successful people say that they were repeatedly told it by a parent or teacher. I think children pretty much work out for themselves that it doesn't apply to flying."

For every successful person who took on board this message, I reckon you could find auite a few failures, a few suicides and a number of people with seriously damaged health on the way.

What about young gymnasts who damage their bodies because they cannot accept their physical limitations?

Or university students who drive themselves into a breakdown because they cannot accept that getting top marks in their chosen degree is actually too difficult for them?

Or the X factor competitors with no talent who genuinely believe that practice and belief in oneself means you will succeed.

These are not unrealistic aims in the same sense as wanting to fly without wings. Clearly, some people can be world class gymnasts or graduate with top marks or become famous singers. But it may still be a totally unrealistic aim for one particular individual.

My brother worked extremely hard on his violin. He was not untalented. He had excellent tuition and belief in himself. But at the end of the day he didn't have the kind of talent it takes to become successful. He recognised that and decided to work in another field where he has achieved success. I have seen others who have not been able to change course collapse completely.

[ParsingFancy]

Some brilliant alternative, and more appropriate, messages here.

Love "If you don't shoot, you don't score," and, "Success is 99% failure."

[WafflyVersatile]

This is an excellent video about the dark side of positive thinking.

[OrbisNonSufficit]

The inverse is true though - you can't do anything if you don't try. I'm not sure how to phrase it more positively without implying that trying is enough (it's not).

Focussing on effort is important, because very little gets handed out for free, but without an outcome there isn't a lot of point... As Yoda said, "Do, or do not. There is no try."

[WafflyVersatile]

I fell over in the street without trying just the other day. So that blows your theory right out of the water!

[OrbisNonSufficit]

Waffly

[hermioneweasley]

Hmm, I understand it's logically true (like flying without aids) but human endeavour is quite extraordinary and while some people are very talented, nobody achienves without huge effort, so I think encouraging striving is to be encouraged. Small example - I remember watching lee Mead in the "Joseph" thing and realising very early on that he would win because he simply wanted it more than the others and worked harder as a result.

[PortHills]

Aim for the sky, and you get to the top of the tree. Aim for the top of the tree and you stay on the ground.

[WafflyVersatile]

Applying any of these catchy little wise sayings without considering context or critical thought is unhelpful. Most of them have an equally 'true' but opposite counter-proverb.

many hands make light work
too many cooks spoil the broth

you get the idea.


Except for 'moderation in all things', including using motivational pep talk catchphrases.