To have been annoyed with the cyclists

[EverybodyLovesWine]

On the way back from visiting a friend yesterday I was behind two cyclists in the proper Lycra gear riding two abreast.

The roads were single carriage way roads through villages with on comjng traffic, corners, parked cars etc. I was not confident to overtake but the cyclists didn't move over for a good ten mins ( where the road widened out a bit anyway).

There was a LONG queue of traffic behind me and I was getting a bit stressed, even though of turning into a side road so I wasn't first. I am not an aggressive driver but wondering if I should have beeped them. They turned round a few times so certainly knew I was there.

Just as the road widened the man behind shouted loudly at them and gestured as he passed.

AIBU to have been really annoyed with the riders (the words arrogant tossers were going through my mind) as they should have pulled over IMO, should I have been more forthright with my driving? Or perhaps I should not have been annoyed and was in fact an arrogant tosser of a car driver!

[rottentomatoes]

I think the problem is that drivers who don't cycle really don't understand the realities of being on a bike on the road.

As a car driver, motorbike rider, cyclist and pedestrian I would say seek to learn about others experience on the road.

Many drivers think a cyclists place on the road is a straight line by the gutter but the following are reasons why a cyclist might choose to cycle further into the centre of the road.

There may be pot holes and drain covers every few yards which make it dangerous to cycle over.

1. If there is more than one lane cyclists may be cycling in an appropriate filter lane in order to go into the direction they need. Many drivers don't get this especially if there are three lanes and you need to be in the centre lane so as not to get sucked into a wrong turning.
   

1. There may be parked cars (legal and illegal) mean it is not safe to continually be pulling out around them and back in every few yards and therefore it is safer to stay slightly more central.
   

1. Cars often turning into the road stop with their front bonnet in the cycle lane, swerving round these is dangerous with cars passing to the right.
   

1. Often shrapnel and lorry spill, nuts bolts, branches from trees all end up near the gutter which makes it dangerous to be swerving around them.
   

1. As others have said the further to the left one cycles the closer some inconsiderate drivers pass.
   

Lastly pedestrians should also realise that stopping time on a bicycle can be a lot long than a car.

[Sparklingbrook]

I would hate to cycle on the roads after reading all this. It doesn't sound like fun.

[cumfy]

Did you wave a hairy hand at them as you passed ?

Good-ho.

[cumfy]

Sometimes it's safer for cyclists to ride 2-abreast, precisely so following motorist don't get the opportunity to make the wrong decision.

Afterall, if it was a tractor you would all had to fuck off wait anyway.

And then a mile or so later on you would have come up behind the same vehicle you would have been behind but just 5 minutes earlier.

[Gubbins]

I have been unable to find this bit about slow moving vehicles pulling over anywhere in the Highway Code, so would be grateful for someone who's been quoting it to direct me to the right section.

But even if it is in there, were these cyclists actually slow? They were unlikely to be traveling at less than 20mph, probably a bit more. In the villages the limit is presumably 30, and safe driving speed in the conditions you outline were probably rather less, so they probably only added a couple of minutes at most to your overall journey time. If I think I'm likely to hold up a car for sometime, then I'll pull over and let it pass. If I'm traveling at pretty much their safe speed then I won't bother.

[rottentomatoes]

Another thing that drives me nuts when I cycle is when I am matching the speed of the car in front say 20 mph and the car behind overtakes me. The car then pulls straight into my stopping distance and slows to the car speed in front making me brake. Why just why?

[FredFredGeorge]

Gubbins It's in 169
www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/overtaking-162-to-169

Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.

[Lazyjaney]

"I think the problem is that drivers who don't cycle really don't understand the realities of being on a bike on the road"

The problem in this case is cyclists who don't understand or are flouting the rules of the road. In the Highway code:

Rule 66 says cyclists must cycle in single file on narrow roads
Rule 67 says cyclists must be aware of traffic coming up behind this.
Rule 169 says slow moving traffic should pull in to let faster traffic pass.

The cyclists in the OPs example flouted all of these, for 10 minutes. They were the rude, selfish and entitled cunts in this case. The only dangerous driving was done by them.

I'm also amazed at the number of cyclists on this thread who either do t know the rules of the road or don't think it applies to them. To these people I'd say that you probably also need to know:

Rule 71 don't go through a red light
Rule 64 don't cycle on pavements

Both things I see multiple cyclists do every time I'm on the roads

[LessMissAbs]

The thing I don't understand is why drive on country roads if you want to drive fast and not be subject to hold-ups?

Why not drive mainly on motorways (or better still autobahns) or at least straight, fast roads? Why live at the end of such roads if such niceities of rural life leave you feeling frustrated?

And why, oh why, criticise other people who are simply getting from one place to another without polluting the environment, who are getting fit, maintaining their health and doing a damn site more than sitting on their fat backsides moaning about how other people are selfish.

I cannot think of a use more suited to a country road than cycling - other than a horse and cart, which of course, thankfully in this country, still has the right to use such roads.

[VivaLeBeaver]

Rule 66 is a grey area, what's a narrow road? Is it single track roads only which this one wasn't.

Next rule says they need to be aware of cars coming up but not that they need to do anything other than been aware.

Next one says they should pull in not that they must.

So I don't think they broke any rules though I agree they were a bit inconsiderate. But like I said earlier if it was a busy road they'd have had to have pulled in every minute and then they'd have got nowhere.

[rottentomatoes]

lazyjane
"I'm also amazed at the number of cyclists on this thread who either do t know the rules of the road or don't think it applies to them. To these people I'd say that you probably also need to know:

Rule 71 don't go through a red light
Rule 64 don't cycle on pavements

Both things I see multiple cyclists do every time I'm on the roads"







A question to you Janey, do you see any type of bad driving every time you are on the road? Or is it just cyclists that you see riding badly?

[ivykaty44]

LMA - thats why I love the county I live in - there are two very busy motorways that take a lot of traffic away from b roads

But rule 169 is flouted continually by cars in towns where faster moving traffic is not allowed past they never move over to the side of the road to let faster moving traffic past - it really is do as it says in the highway code and I will do as I like as I drive a car - ffs a lot of the time they even begrudgingly move over to let emergency services past - even then sometimes they don't to make sure that the vehicle travelling to the emergency gets there slower, wonder if it was their loved one they would move a bit faster

[lljkk]

Every day I see people driving & parking on the pavement. Usually twice a day. Every sodding day. Most of them on the school run, don't think that's an excuse, is it?
Then there are people driving on the wrong side of road (trying to get to a parking place, this is totally illegal where I'm from).

[Childrenofthestones]

May I suggest that you get a bike and ride that stretch of road on your own.
Perhaps if you experience a car or lorry over taking you at 50 or so almost brush your elbow because they have misjudged the gap between you and an oncoming car.
Then ask yourself what would the car over taking you do if this misjudgement was so bad that it was hit a vehicle coming the other way or clip hit you from behind?
You only have to experience a near miss a couple of times to tell you that they were doing the right thing, regardless of what the highway code says.

[Technotropic]

May I suggest that you get a bike and ride that stretch of road on your own.
Perhaps if you experience a car or lorry over taking you at 50 or so almost brush your elbow because they have misjudged the gap between you and an oncoming car.
Then ask yourself what would the car over taking you do if this misjudgement was so bad that it was hit a vehicle coming the other way or clip hit you from behind?
You only have to experience a near miss a couple of times to tell you that they were doing the right thing, regardless of what the highway code says.

Absolutely this!

It's very easy to sit in a metal box and judge others. It's not so easy to genuinely look at an issue from both sides before reassessing your stance.

[Goldmandra]

I come across inconsiderate arrogant cyclists just as often as inconsiderate arrogant drivers, if not more.

There are often cycle races and organised cycle rides in the lanes around where we live. I am regularly held up for long periods by cyclists riding in packs, deliberately blocking the road.

On many of these stretches it would be perfectly possible to give the cyclist on the extreme left a good car's width in order to overtake but, as they ride two or three abreast, the road is never going to be wide enough. I could still possibly squeeze through sometimes but wouldn't dream of doing that so I sit a reasonable distance behind waiting for them to pull over getting more and more irritated.

I fully appreciate that having people driving too close when overtaking is frightening and unsafe but the solution is not to alienate all drivers by preventing people from overtaking where it would be safe to do so.

I wouldn't prevent vehicles from passing me for long periods when riding a horse and I don't expect cyclists to do it to me.

Making people angry causes accidents so deciding to block people from overtaking probably causes more problems than it solves.

[Technotropic]

Goldmandra

I can see your point but I truly believe the real issue here is why people get so angry when driving in the first place.

The problem with the races you describe is that a peloton, or even small pack of riders, will cause problems for a driver. If you have a narrow road and 6 cyclists riding 2 or 3 abreast then changing these to 6 cyclists riding single file is like overtaking a bus (in terms of length) on a narrow, windy road. You mention lanes where you live so I'd imagine overtaking a bus safely would be difficult at best.

Either way there's not a lot that can be done and given we all have to share the roads then c'est la vie. Are all of our journeys so important that we cannot afford to lose a few minutes?

[LessMissAbs]

Goldmandra There are often cycle races and organised cycle rides in the lanes around where we live. I am regularly held up for long periods by cyclists riding in packs, deliberately blocking the road

You see, I used to live in a country where exercise and activity were the norm, and done or at least supported by, the majority of people. Where midweek and weekend races were common on rural roads and in fact where town centres were closed down and other roads closed, not by the police, but by the local race organisers, for cycle races, triathlons, etc.. Most big towns would have at least one of each a year, and quite often it would be part of a local festival. And it was obviously recognised that to get fit for these events, and perhaps for a really successful, even Olympic standard rider to be produced, something called training was necessary.

It was also a country where the people had a lower rate of heart disease, diabetes and "lifestyle" disability than the UK. It also has a rather better economy than the UK at the moment. The neighbouring countries also tend to follow this pattern.

Hence those Brits who spout the "I hate cyclists" tantrum thing come across as rather unevolved and a bit odd to me. It conjures up an equivalent image in my mind's eye of a group of chavs heckling a bunch of supermodels for being ugly. Which is kind of the image I have at the moment of lazyjaney, but I might be wrong.

[inabeautifulplace]

"Rule 66 says cyclists must cycle in single file on narrow roads
Rule 67 says cyclists must be aware of traffic coming up behind this."

This is not true Lazyjane. There is a critical difference in the Highway Code where the words must or should are used.

[lljkk]

What are the roads for?

Aren't they there for everyone to use to get from A to B, for whatever purposes they deem fit? A leisure outing with friends, a harvest to fetch from the field, taking child to nursery, coming home from work? I can't see that any of these purposes has moral highground over the others, regardless of what kind of vehicle is used.

Problem is some people want to assume that their purpose for using the roads is more valid than others. That they are more entitled and others should not "get in the way". There is no case for this attitude. Only emergency services vehicles have automatic right of way over the others.

[Goldmandra]

Are all of our journeys so important that we cannot afford to lose a few minutes?

It is almost every day at this time of year, sometimes several times in one day. There are times when it is extremely irritating to be held up several times on one journey.

It's not about having right of way. I wouldn't disrupt the cyclists in any way by overtaking them. I also wouldn't dream of overtaking anywhere it were not safe. Cyclists are traveling much more slowly than buses on country lanes so it isn't comparable.

It is perfectly reasonable to expect others to wait until it is safe to overtake before they do so. It is very unreasonable to deliberately make it impossible for them to do so by travelling alongside each other in order to make overtaking impossible even where the conditions are suitable.

Cyclists who behave like this need to accept that they are partly responsible for the fact that some drivers are not as considerate as they could be.

I am also often held up by tractors, horse riders, ponies and traps, etc. It only seems to be cyclists who feel driven to make a point and block the road unnecessarily on a regular basis. The rest generally seem to make an effort to show consideration wherever possible. Of course there are exceptions but there is definitely a strong pattern.

[inabeautifulplace]

I'm sure you're a perfectly sensible driver Goldmandra. Unfortunately, as several people on this thread have said, some cyclists choose to ride defensively due to aggressive driving. I do at genuinely dangerous spots.

One thing that might apply in your case is that with a group of cyclists it should be easier to overtake when they are 2 abreast. That's because you'll be overtaking for half the distance.

Having said all that there's undoubtedly a small minority that know their rights but not their responsibilities. I'm just pleased that they aren't driving an artic!

[Toadinthehole]

I expect there are inconsiderate cyclists around.

I also expect there are rather more motorists who are so irritated by the thought of shock! horror! a cyclist getting in everyone's way that they convince themselves there are hordes of these cyclists, sweeping along the highways of Britain, responding to the pleas of motorists with a sea of lycra bums.

[inabeautifulplace]

To answer your final point, perhaps those cyclists riding defensively find it necessary. There is not an epidemic of tractor driver deaths in this country, but cyclists deaths are rising.

[Goldmandra]

At genuinely dangerous spots is perfectly reasonable of course. For several miles is not.

Many of the roads around here are wide enough to overtake one cyclist who is, quite rightly, taking a fairly dominant line, not too close to the verge. An additional cyclist taking to centre of the road makes it impossible to leave a safe width to overtake. That is obstructive and inconsiderate and very common behaviour in this area. Those are the people who make me irritated, not the ones who are trying to keep themselves safe in by reasonable methods.

If a pack is aware that they are too numerous to overtake safely they should split.

The behaviour I've just described has to be counter-productive.