To think the response to the measles outbreak in Wales has been too slow ?

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Like many other parents of children who are now teenagers (or thereabouts) we didn't have our DC's immunised with MMR as youngsters. With the current outbreak of measles in Wales, and also now they are older, we have reconsidered and decided to ask for the vax for them both. I phoned my GP surgery this morning to make an appt. for them. Receptionists initial response was ...
"Oh, I think it's too late now" - then after I said that I knew lots of teenagers were having the vax she said she'd get the nurse to phone me back. Lovely practice nurse did this shortly afterwards and I now have an appt. for them to have it in about a week's time.

Was a little shocked though by the receptionist's initial poorly informed and frankly somewhat judgemental response to my request.
This has also made me think of the pictures on the news of the long queues of parents and children in Wales now coming forward to have their vaccinations. The long queues make me wonder if the clinics couldn't perhaps be better resourced to cut down on these waiting times (which might put some people off coming forwards)?

If a catch-up programme had been initiated when outbreak began to develop in the autumn, and with perhaps more pro-active and better resourced programmes in clinics and even schools across the country would we have more chance of beating this outbreak before it spreads outside the Swansea and South Wales area ?

Is judgement of the decisions made by parents at the height of the MMR controversy holding practitioners and policy makers back from acting quickly and effectively in the best interests of children's health ?

I know that posting this in AIBU is a risky thing to do as some will surely say I am being unreasonable for not letting my DC's have the vax as young children, but I think the important thing is really looking at what we can all do now, especially to halt this recent measles outbreak.

All I will say in my OP in defence of my past actions is that I have only really understood about herd immunity and protecting the most vulnerable from reading threads on MN. And don't forget one of my recent actions - this morning - is to book them an appointment.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Thanks tiggy, maybe I do read people's posts as more personal than is meant, though still think some have been a bit full on.

Just think everyone (especially HCP's and policy makers) should try to accept that we are where we are, and do whatever they can to proceed positively from here. I do think that overly judgemental attitudes to past decisions by parents could hold back effective action in the present, possibly developing, situation.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Fair enough george - nicely asked !

I think when they were very small I just felt they were too small to be injected with nasty poisons which no-one could reassure me would do them no harm (let alone protect them from nasty illnesses) DD was born in 1999 and I think the balance of what I was hearing at the height of the controversy was not enough to weigh the scales in favour of having the vax. In fact was sufficiently concerned that they haven't had any of their vax.

Watching the news the other night there were two boys talking about how nasty it was to have measles, and an interview with the mother of the man who died. It is hearing their personal experiences that has changed my mind. Together with my children seeming much older and more robust now, plus the fact they may want to travel more in the coming years. Plus reading here of the risk to those who cannot have the vax. Plus the worrying research at centre of controversy being discredited. Plus being in a better place now to weigh up evidence and make a decision. May well have had some PN depression issues. But overwhelmingly it's hearing personal experiences and understanding the threat of an outbreak to the DC's.

BTW After they've had their MMR's I'm going to discuss with the nurse a catch-up programme for their other missing vaccs. I was worried by seeing the effects of tetanus on a child in Africa during Comic Relief - so again persuaded by personal experiences of others. (I've never known anyone who's had tetanus so I think that partly explains why it's not that real to me ?)

Perhaps it's easy to be overly worried by the risk of the vax and not sufficiently worried by the risks of the illnesses - since I'm not the only one who came down on that side of the decision.
An outbreak can make you re-assess those relative risks.

[georgedawes]

Thanks for your answer. This might be harder to answer but do you think if there'd be an outbreak when your children were small you'd have vaccinated then? Although that might be hard to answer with the benefit of hindsight.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Possibly george, but I think one factor is that they do seem more robust now than when they were so tiny !
Also we were at the height of the controversy then and it's now been widely discredited. I've come to believe that any apparent correlation between autism and MMR is not causal but very largely due to the characteristics of autism becoming apparent at around the same age the MMR is given. I know some people still hold different views about this.

[ExitPursuedByABear]

I am similar to Juggling. DD born in 1999, although she had the other vaccines and a single measles jab. I am still an advocate of single jabs and think it is unfortunate that they are no longer available.

I am having DD vaccinated now, because I asked her if she wanted to have them. I am more concerned about rubella to be honest as she has had the single measles. I always intended to get her done at some point as I would hate my decisions to affect any future pregnancies she may have.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Nice to know I have some company Exit - I've felt a bit lonesome on this thread at times !

I've worked with young children with special needs who've been affected by their mother having rubella during pregnancy. Lovely children who I remember well many years afterwards, but again being confronted by people's personal experiences always makes me think.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Thanks for your sympathetic post too tiggy
I think that's a good idea about publicising more information about the illnesses and diseases tigs - to help parents have a more realistic view of the relative risks.

[Lazyjaney]

TBH OP I think your initial stance of attacking the doctor's receptionist was not the best way to win friends. I do think however your long post upthread was extremely good and useful, and IMO should be taken on board by anyone planning any campaign as it explains very well how you came to change your mind, and what could be done to influence others.

I also agree with tiggy that the risks of these diseases if caught has been massively downplayed. It sees to have required measles to actually kill someone, to remind people tat it's a killer, which is why countries inoculate. I think we have had so many generations free of these things we forget why we have inoculations, sewerage, clean water etc in the first place.

[TheBigJessie]

In that case, please get them done for whooping cough.

If you, as a healthy adult, get it, you'll be miserable for three months. If you have asthma, your life will be absolutely shit for three months. If you give it to a baby too young to be fully immunised, they might die.

I have a sickening suspicion that I caught whooping cough when I was 16. At the time, I thought it was bronchitis. However, I do remember the noise I made as I coughed and breathed in... It was awful. It lasted from May until August. And my lungs have been quite the same.

And now I have to wonder whether I passed it on to anyone vulnerable. Fortunately for my conscience, I know it wasn't my fault I wasn't immunised, but I still feel awful. I tell myself I don't know it was whooping cough. I tell myself that there were no deaths from whooping cough in the local newspaper 11 years ago. Still preys on my mind, though.

If your child catches whooping cough, you won't be able to reassure yourself with the excuses I use for myself.

[TheBigJessie]

My lungs havenever been quite the same.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Will do Jessie - when I made the appt the nurse asked if we could discuss other vax too.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Possibly I shouldn't have mentioned the receptionist so much at the beginning Janey but she was on my mind as I'd just phoned to make the appointment. And I thought her response was relevant as kind of showed not everyone is really on message to deliver an effective catch-up programme in light of recent measles outbreak.

I guess there's lots of different ways I could have gone about doing the thread, but I doubt it would have made that much difference to people's reactions overall.

[ExitPursuedByABear]

I mentioned at the start of this thread that I have booked my DD in for her MMR, and then this morning I received a letter from the surgery saying I should book her in for one. Ha, beat them to it.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Good they're on the case though Exit - as are you !

[Oblomov]

The very fact that th OP made this mis-informed decision, years ago, NOT to vaccinate is the very reasoon that there is an outbreak in Wales.
And as others have said , she has had YEARS to sort this. She has known for YEARS, that her original deicsion was mis-informed.
But now she is all up in arms about the receptionist.
I can't believe Op's cheek. Absolutely astonishing.

[piprabbit]

The receptionist is an arse, I can't help but wonder what other jems of medical misinformation she is unloading on the patients.

She needs retraining, either to stick the practice line (i.e. if she has been specifically told by practice management not to allow teenagers to book MMRs) or not comment at all. Otherwise she risks causing problems for patients and the practice.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Hmm, receptionist was still wrong though in saying "Oh, I think it's too late now" Still not good, whatever you think of my judgements over the years.

[MrsHoarder]

Not read full thread, but wanted to point out the news crews will look for the longest queue they can find. All the clinics with short queues seeing people as they turn up don't look interesting. Of course people see the news then decide not to go to their local clinic, which raises the question as to how ethical the media are...

[piprabbit]

Exactly, what if a patient phones to book a smear test and she says "Oh, I think you have to be over 30yo have one of those".
Or someone phones for a flu jab because they have an auto-immune disease and she says "I think they are only available to over 60s".
To which the patient might (like the OP) insist on speaking to someone else, but they equally might thank her for her help, apologise for bothering her and hang up.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Thanks pip - seems these issues are pretty much at the heart of being a good receptionist at a GP surgery. In fact it made me think maybe I could give it a go !

[ubik]

Perhaps it would be cheeky to surmise that op is feeling defensive about not giving her children thr appropriate vaccinations and is transferring some of this emotion on to the GP receptionist - who did her job, got the nurse to phone.

When you go in, perhaps thank the receptionist fir doing this, thank the nurse for his/her care and advice and be bloody grateful you are not living in a country where there is no vaccination programme or you have to pay ££££.

[GoblinGranny]

'In fact it made me think maybe I could give it a go !'

Presumably you will have to have MN in an open tab on your computer, just to make sure that you give the correct medical information.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

I am a very grateful and thankful person ubik - so no problem with thanking those that do a good job, especially helping me to look after my DC's.

@ goblin - Yes, MN on open tab defs !