to think that it is extremely eye-rolly indeed to award top prize to a Year 4 school project which was done on a Mac Book Pro?

[effedorf]

Especially given that I am not talking about wealthy independent sector, but London state primary in very mixed area?

[Rockinhippy]

If anyone suggested his models were as good as they are because of parental input, he'd be extremely upset. I'd like to think he'd laugh at them, but I suspect he'd just be very quiet and hurt

Exactly Iteotwawki that is exactly what happened with my own DD, she loves doing projects at home, because she had more time to throw herself into them & do er best work, she loved showing off her natural talent - she too even in year 2/3 could use the software better than I can, I taught her the basics, the rest she sussed out for herself -

but after years of comments of cheating, "your mum did that" " from her classmates & occasionally over hearing parents like the OP too, & bullying that ensued as a result, she won't hand her work in any more, she still enjoys doing it, but doesn't want anyone at school to see it - I'd love to know what is fairer about that

[Iteotwawki]

I'm still unclear as to how you know a year 4 child couldn't have produced the finished project in question.

My oldest son is 6 and currently in year 3. He can make things out of paper, matchsticks and paint that I couldn't hope to assist with! He doesn't let me help, he knows he does a better job by himself.

If anyone suggested his models were as good as they are because of parental input, he'd be extremely upset. I'd like to think he'd laugh at them, but I suspect he'd just be very quiet and hurt.

[MTSgroupie]

"there shouldn't be a "winner" in a primary school project"

Every year, without fail, our primary HT would suggest that the talent show shouldnt have a winner. Every year the parent committee would ignore his view. We know this because every year he would, without fail, remind us of his views just before he handed out the prizes .

I see nothing wrong with a bit of competition, even at that age. Do some kids get upset at not winning? Sure, but the majority seem to have no problem with it.

[jacks365]

Years ago my dd had to do a project in yr7 then there was an open evening to view them all. I was stood near my daughters when i heard someone say guess that was a parents effort. It wasn't, she'd made a medieval style dress and i can't sew to save my life. My only input was buying materials but due to the quality people made assumptions.

My children have grown up with technology and frequently show me how to do things. At about 12months my dd4 figured out how to take the screen lock off my phone so its unfair to assume that a child couldn't use the software. It may be unfair but due to background some children will always do better with these projects ie parents being able to provide more materials due to wealth but they shouldn't be penalized for that either.

[littlewhitebag]

My DD has always been a techno whizz whereas I am a techno numpty. In year 4 she was producing sophisticated projects on her computer. We had a PC then but she has a MacBook now. I never helped her with these projects as I had no idea how to. Kids these days are techno savvy. OP appears to be saying that she is a lazy arse parent herself and can't be bothered helping her DC with projects. This does not appear to have any relevance to whether a MacBook or a PC has been used.

[Weegiemum]

Why was there a winner? There shouldn't be a "winner" in a primary school project! That would irk me more than help from parents etc!

(Written from my iPad, I have a MacBookPro, my dh has a PC laptop, I don't see that much difference between the work my dc produce on either, apart from some video editing my dd1 prefers the mac for!)

[Labootin]

I have a mac book pro

I use it to MN and go on facebook

Damn I could have been Steven Spielberg.

[SlumberingDormouse]

Oh and btw, the (free) software on Macs in particular is very intuitive and certainly easily understandable to a small child.

[SlumberingDormouse]

I now have a MacBook Pro, which I love, kindly bought for me by my dad.
HOWEVER, at school (when most of the other pupils were using computers, including some very fancy ones), I got some top grades and won prizes by hand-drawing pictures and hand-writing projects. YABU.

[MidniteScribbler]

I think you're dramatically underestimating the level of knowledge children have on computers these days. I've had an early primary school class making their own movies, writing them, producing them, editing them, adding soundtracks and sound effects. The results were really quite remarkable. And they di it on the classroom computers with very little input from me, in fact their level of abilities are far outstrip mine in this area. These are 7 year olds.

[cory]

"EduCated - no it is about pupils winning prizes when they have done their work on sophisticated software (sophisticated in home pc terms, not sophisticated in the great scheme of things) which a 9 year old could not do without a lot of adult intervention."

Do you know for a fact what this particular 9 yo could or couldn't do without adult intervention?

Some children are far more computer savvy than the adults around them. Some children are technologically gifted. My brother was mending electrical household goods that my parents had given up on before he was even at school. By the time he was at secondary he was sent in to train the school staff in how to use computers. He was self taught as this was before computer studies made it onto the curriculum.

[Kiriwawa]

My DS has started making animation films because he's inspired by watching stuff on youtube. He's 6 and in year 1. They're a bit crap but I can imagine that if he carries on, he's going to be a bit of a whizz by the time he's in year 4.

If he didn't have an ipod, it would be a lot more difficult but you can't go and penalise children because they have access to technology

[pickledginger]

If they always win then you have good cause to complain about how things are being handled, but sadly it's not likely to change. All you can do is make sure your DC know that it's the effort they put in that matters and that the other child's parents won't always be there to help them and it's better to rely on your own ability.

[Rockinhippy]

But how do you KNOW the kids/families cheat ?? Maybe the DC who won actually really is just that talented, unless you were sat watching the work being produced, there is no way in hell you could know that as fact, but you can spout off about, your DCs can then go to school & mimic your spouting, accusing some poor kid who actually has worked hard on their own, because they enjoy it & sooner or later that poor kid will get so fed up of the constant accusations if cheating, that get stop taking part.

Will that make it fairer then ??

& I say that as mum to a DC who loves to throw herself into projects, whether she ses our MAC software of online resources, bar pointing in the right direction its ALL her own work & ideas - or should I say WAS - because thanks to sourgrapes shouters like yourself - she doesn't bother any more

[IThinkOfHappyWhenIThinkOfYou]

I have a macbook pro and I don't do my dcs homework. Tbh I'm not sure what video editing is. When ds has needed the macbook for projects (he is in Y4) then it honestly wouldn't occur to me that he was a disgraceful cheat whose work had no merit.

[MTSgroupie]

At DS's parents evening the IT teacher told us that he would make a point of asking the kids questions about their project. Why did they do x instead of y? How did they do z? If he was to ask them to make this change, how would they do it?

Teachers aren't as gullible as the OP like to think.

[Kiriwawa]

I do understand exactly what you can do on a Mac with some software AnnIonic. But I asked effedorf what software it was and why she thought it was created on a Mac, neither of which she deigned to answer. And frankly she's been a bit pissy throughout the thread.

Parents have helped their kids with stuff since time immemorial - I remember the horror last year at the easter egg decorating contest when I realised I was the only parent that hadn't helped my child!

[effedorf]

YES pickledginger - and what if the matchstick replicas of houses of parliament always win a prize over the wonky toilet rolls? This is precisely what I mean. But I am not personally hurt by it, and I am not hurt on behalf of my child. I am just deeply cynical (and sad on behalf of the children I know in my child's class who get no input from their parents or carers).

Anyway, really, goodnight from me now.

[AnnIonicIsoTronic]

(& I speak as someone who desperately rolled one Dreamweaver free trial into another with all sorts of IP address jiggerry-pokery, to try to finish a web design project. HTML mark-up language was a cold cold Siberia once the '30 day free trial' door finally clanged shut.

[pickledginger]

As your issue is actually about the parents doing the work, I think you need to get over it. This has always happened. If they're asked to make a model of a building in Y4 there will be children bringing in scale replicas of the Houses of Parliament made from matchsticks amongst the wonky toilet roll castles.

[AnnIonicIsoTronic]

I think OP is getting an unnecessarily hard time.

I have owned a MacBook - then I had three windows laptops in succession. Video editing was a piece of piss on the MacBook. It sucked at a lot of other stuff - but it had a perfectly integrated interface which meant that it was totally intuitive to add music, effects etc. I have loads of great DC videos & montages from my MacBook days. I honestly tried to replicate them on PC - but the video editing PC software was either ££££ or crap or really fiddly to install. On a shared PC, of course, you wouldn't even be allowed to install new software.

Good software really flatters the worker - and I'm not sure 'previous generation' folk always understand how easy some of the whizzy flashy stuff is to do with the right tools.

[effedorf]

Nancy surmised from what I had said that I was pissed off because I couldn't be bothered to help my kids.

Anyway, I am struggling to get my point across. One or two have understood me. I can't find the exact words to make my point, so I shall bow out with genuine thanks for all contributions .

[MidniteScribbler]

You're kidding yourself if you think teachers don't know who has been helped or turns in work well above their level. We know exactly who has shit parents and who has tiger parents.

We also know which parents are the ones that will sulk and blame the teachers when they think their little precious doesn't win everything.

[SE13Mummy]

I forgot to ask, what form did the prizewinning project take?